RE: MD A conflict of values

From: David Buchanan (
Date: Sun Mar 30 2003 - 03:43:53 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "RE: MD A conflict of values"

    Sam and all:

    Its not that I'm picking on you, Sam, its just that I think your posts are
    the most compelling. I was pretty much with you until the end, so I cut most
    of it out. Sam quoted...

    Lila (chapter 24): ... "Biological quality is necessary to the
    survival of life. But when it threatens to dominate and destroy society,
    biological quality becomes evil itself, the 'Great Satan' of
    twentieth-century Western culture. One reason why fundamentalist Moslem
    cultures have become so fanatic in their hatred of the West is that it has
    released the biological forces of evil that Islam has fought for centuries
    to control."

    Sam said:
    And unless the West realises the stakes involved - and transforms itself,
    and renews itself - then it will lose. For military sophistication, being
    the instrument of control between the social and biological levels, cannot
    overcome an intellectual pattern of values. And the assessment that the West
    unleashes biological chaos is an intellectual assessment (for Islam, just as
    much as Christianity, operates at the intellectual level). And hordes of
    jihadis will overcome hordes of intellectuals every time.

    DMB says:
    The military is the intrument of control over biology? Let me split hairs.
    The military is a social level instrument and it is the social level's role
    to control biology. But I'd say cops and religions enforce the moral codes
    that control the body's appetites, while the military is like the immune
    system for the giant itself. It grinds bodies up to protect itself. Its very
    rare for a war to be waged for intellectual reasons, let alone actually
    fought by "hordes of intellectuals". (Thanks for the hilarious image. I
    laughed my ass off. Are you channeling Woody Allen or what?!) I think that
    the forces and values on both sides in the present war are social. I don't
    think Iraqis hate freedom or rights, its just that Islamic culture tends to
    be offended by the quasi-pornographic nature of American culture. We've let
    that biological genie out of the bottle and they reject the West for that
    reason. The Puritans must be spinning in their graves and would most likely
    reject modern Western culture for the same reasons. Hedonism. Vice.
    Debauchery. You know, all the really fun stuff. (Of course, the West's
    exploitive and lethal policies in the Arab world only add to the problem.
    Thanks, Nargess.)

    - Oriana Fallaci said:
    "...the clash between us and them is not a military clash. Oh, no. It is a
    cultural one, a religious one. And our military victories do not solve the
    offensive of Islamic terrorism. On the contrary, they encourage it. They
    exacerbate it, they multiply it. The worst is still to come."

    DMB says:
    On NPR I heard an interview with a political science professor from Saint
    Lawrence university. He explained how this war has effectively dissolved the
    moderate secular and moderate religious positions throughout the region.
    Even the leaders who were among the first to condemn the 9/11 attacks are
    now calling for resistance and jihads. Later, I heard that the top 600
    Mullahs, or whatever the proper religious authorities are called, have
    signed a document in solidarity. It condemns US actions in Iraq and calls on
    all believers to resist the American invasion.

    When terror strikes again, don't say you didn't see it coming. And don't ask
    why they hate us.

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