From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Apr 05 2003 - 20:25:10 BST
Rick, Platt and all:
PLATT said:
...is not intellect basically social?
RICK responded:
I think this is what Pirsig was talking about when he wrote things like...
PIRSIG (LILA ch12 p179)
The intellectual level of patterns, in the historic process of freeing
itself from its parent social level, namely the church, has tended to invent
a myth of independence from the social level for its own benefit. Science
and reason, this myth goes, come only from the objective world, never from
the social world. The world of objects imposes itself upon the mind with no
social mediation whatsoever. ...it isn't so.
DMB says:
Firstly, I think it's pretty clear that Pirsig here is using "myth" in the
common sense, as a widely held misconception. And what he's talking about
here is the error in SOM that does not recognize its own dependence on the
social level. You may recall the quote I posted recently where Pirsig
identifies the failure to make the distinction as one of its big
problems....
"Phaedrus thought the metaphysics of substance fails to illuminate the gulf
between ourselves and Victorians because it regards both society AND
intellect as possession of biology. It says society and intellect don't have
substance and therefore can't be real. It says biology is where reality
stops. Society and intellect are ephemeral POSSESSIONS of reality. In a
substance metaphysics, consequently, the distinction between society and
intellect is sort of like a distinction between what's in the right pocket
and what's in the left pocket of biological man. ...In a value metaphysics,
on the other hand, society and intellect are patterns of value. They're
real. They're independent."
Thanks,
DMB
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