RE: MD Mysticism and the appearance/reality distinction

From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin (
Date: Tue Apr 08 2003 - 02:44:02 BST

  • Next message: Matt the Enraged Endorphin: "Re: MD Mysticism and the appearance/reality distinction"


    DMB said:
    Matt seems to think the slogans of
    pragmatism can save Rorty from having metaphysical assumptions, as if they
    were magic words that granted immunity. Scott seems to be saying he detects
    these assumptions whether Rorty wants to acknowledge it or not. This kind of
    circularity, exhibiting the assumptions even as you deny them, is just one
    example of what Wilber calls a "preformative contradiction".

    Again: Rorty nor I have ever claimed that he does not have assumptions. We
    follow Wittgenstein in thinking that meaning is created in the context of
    our assumptions. One of the assumptions in our "inherited background
    against which you judge true and false" is the assumption that assumptions
    are metaphysical. Pragmatists reverse that assumption, its why we say that
    those who call Rorty on having a metaphysics without admitting it are
    begging the question when they pursue that line.

    And Rorty nor I have ever claimed that our reasoning, or anyone else's, is
    anything but circular. We acknowledge it and say that everybody else is
    making circular arguments, too. But this is a boring rehash.

    The mind-brain identity language strikes me as not just
    materialism, but pretty hard-core reductionist materialism. And this view is
    not unrelated to the amorality and nihilism I've detected in other areas of
    Rorty's thinking. Its all this kind of stuff that makes me think Rorty's
    take is SO at odds with the MOQ's mysticism. I'm not even surprized to hear
    that Rorty thinks nothing is lost when "wonder" becomes merely "G-14

    Again: Rorty is not a reductionist. While Rorty doesn't think anything is
    lost explanatory-wise when wonder becomes G-14 quivers, he doesn't see the
    need for "merely." He despises reductionism just as much as Pirsig did in
    ZMM when he excised the word "just." Rorty's position is more like,
    "sometimes it is helpful to talk about G-15 quivers, sometimes it is
    helpful to talk about wonder."


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