RE: MD Undeniable Facts

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Sun Apr 13 2003 - 16:56:16 BST

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Philosophy and Theology"

    Hi Mati:

    Welcome to the Metaphysics of Quality discussion group. To your
    questions Pirsig has answers:

    > Nothing exists prior to observation.
    > ** Perhaps to our observation, if that is the definition of existence. If a
    > tree falls in the woods, and no one is there, does it exist?

    "This is the usual argument against the philosophic idealism that is part
    of the MOQ so it had better be answered here. It is similar to the
    question, 'If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does in make a
    sound?' The historic answer of the idealists is, 'What tree?' In order to
    ask this question you have to presuppose the existence of the falling
    tree and then ask whether this presupposed tree would vanish if nobody
    was there. Of course it wouldn't vanish. It has already been
    presupposed. This presupposition is a standard logical fallacy known as
    a hypothesis contrary to fact. It is the 'hypothetical question' that is
    always thrown out of court as inadmissible. If pigs could fly, how high
    would they go. The answer is the same as the answer to Dave's (Mati's)
    question." Note #80, Lila's Child"

    > Values can occur without emotion.
    > ** What about at the intellectual level, how could they or would they
    > occur there?

    "The MOQ sees emotions as a biological response to quality and not
    the same thing as quality. There are many cases, particularly in
    economic activity, where values occur without any emotion." Note 141,
    "Lila's Child"

    Hope this is helpful.


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