From: Mati Palm-Leis (mpalm@merr.com)
Date: Sun Apr 20 2003 - 02:06:51 BST
Hi Folks,
Steve said:
I would say that an "experience of" has an objective aspect and a
subjective
aspect. There is that which was experienced (external) and the
interpretations of the same experience (internal). The context of an
experience has the subjective aspect of the influence of previous
experiences on the interpretations of the new experience as well as an
objective aspect of context. Both aspects of context result in
boundless
possibilities since all people have different previous experiences
(boundless subjective aspects) and "you can never step in the same river
twice" (infinite objective aspects).
Mati:
** If I understand MOQ correctly there is no mind/body distinction and
therefore when to try to delineate the two in this manner you run into
the same SOM issue, regardless of the context. I think of Pirsig's
example of the computer. Physical circuitry and hardware is
metaphorical to the physical & biological level, the programming (ie.
Word processing) and the letter written are metaphorical to the social
and intellectual level. Those values of the "subjective" nature are not
relegated to us "inside", though we might internalize them.
Steve:
Rather than use the distinction of subjects and objects as the primary
division that enables understanding of reality, Pirsig's second major
insight was to divide reality into a creative aspect (dynamic quality)
and a
self-sustaining aspect (static quality). In ZAMM he explained how the
Quality event produces subjects and objects. In Lila, he explained that
it
is more useful to think of the Quality Event as Dynamic Quality leaving
static patterns of value in its wake which can latch or not onto other
static patterns of value.
Mati:
I have been thinking a lot about DQ lately. I realize that "Creative
aspect" can be a source of quality but I think we need to be a careful
about this. As I am writing this letter, my daughter is sitting next to
me drawing and creating images on paper. Not bad for 8 year old. Yet
her technique and ideas follow many of the static patterns and the
static realities of a normal 8 year old. Art or any other outlet for
the creative aspect must, I believe, create a new reality. An example
is in the impressionists, created a new reality in the way we view the
world. Today artist in the impressionist tradition now relegated to the
static pattern that it has become. One thing that I have been thinking
about is change that is a constant part of reality. Basically, I
believe that there are three types of change, Static change that is a
continuation of the static patterns, Dynamic Change which changes the
reality of the static patterns which in turn becomes the new static
pattern, and there is the third type of change that Pirsig mentions but
I don't think expounds on, Degenerative Change which is the pattern of
destruction. Anybody want to comment?
Take care,
Mati
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