RE: MD Value of thinking

From: Paul Turner (
Date: Sun Aug 10 2003 - 22:46:50 BST

  • Next message: Erin N.: "RE: MD Psychology of conservatism"

    Hi Scott

    I think Pirsig falls into a SOM trap here. That is a view that
    that there was no intellect until brains developed to produce it.
    produced the brain so it can work in physical reality. No, I can't prove
    this, but I take it as a more useful myth than the Darwinian one.

    I'm interested by this Scott, please explain:

    "Intellect produced the brain" as in the "idea" of a "brain" did not
    exist until the intellect invented it?


    "Intellect produced the brain" as in Dynamic Quality created the brain
    and you equate DQ with intellect?


    Another explanation?

    I disagree. Again, I see this as a SOM viewpoint: there is objective
    experience to be explained by the subject. This is the current value of
    thinking, as Bo says, but not basic.

    You have made the assumption that experience = experiencing subject of
    an experienced object. There is no need to make this assumption, such
    divisions come after the empirically experienced value and may form the
    conceptual arrangement of the form "S/O" or may not, I don't see the
    necessity. As such, I fail to see how this is a SOM viewpoint

    Basically, I would say that the value
    of thinking, like everything else, is creativity for its own sake.

    When you say - "that the value of thinking, like everything else, is
    creativity for its own sake" are you not offering an explanation of the
    experience of intellectual patterns?

    With no conceptual organisation of experience there are no explanations,
    with no explanations there is no prediction, with no prediction there is
    no science, with no science there is no technology, with no technology
    there is no internet, with no internet there is no on-line discussion
    group to discuss the MOQ, with no on-line discussion group we wouldn't
    be having this discussion about what the value of the intellectual level

    My experience right now is explained very well by saying that we are
    having this discussion. I guess the question is - are "concepts" and
    "ideas" a side effect of "creativity for its own sake"? Is this all an
    illusory consequence of creativity?

    Just thinking out loud :-)



    MOQ.ORG -
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    Nov '02 Onward -
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Aug 10 2003 - 22:52:20 BST