RE: MD Lila's Child

From: johnny moral (
Date: Mon Aug 11 2003 - 04:06:28 BST

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    Hi Platt,

    What I want to know is (as I said below) does the idea have any control over
    the matter that it produces, does the idea have any autonomy? Is there any
    time delay after Quality makes the idea before the idea makes the quality?

    I don't see how the hot stove analogy enters into this, does the stove not
    exist, or is it not hot, until it is intellectualized as such after you've
    jumped off it?


    >Hi Johnny,
    > > >As Pirsig put it: "In the MOQ Quality comes first which produces ideas
    > > >which produce what we know has matter."
    > >
    > > So, how much time elapses between these stages? How much control do the
    > > ideas have over how they produce the matter, or do they channel the
    > > quality fully and directly into matter without having any control over
    > > it? Couldn't it be said that Quality produces ideas and matter
    > > simultaneously? I mean, the process couldn't stop at producing the idea
    > > of matter without the matter being produced, and the idea can't be
    > > suppressed once quality has produced it, right? So how could there even
    > > be any delay in the creation of the matter after the idea is produced?
    > > So if they are produced simultaneously, there can be no chain like that
    > > - from Q to Idea to Matter - it would have to be more like a pyramid,
    > > from Q to both ideas and matter, right?
    > > This isn't to say that the ideas don't produce the matter, as the matter
    > > could not be produced without the idea. So it is the idea, not the
    > > Quality, that actualizes the Quality into matter.
    > > Do you think getting rid of the chain concept might be useful to
    > > understanding? How crucial is the chain to you?
    >No. Quality produces the idea that creates matter. See the hot stove
    >example in Lila. The sequence is important in the MOQ. In the example,
    >one doesn't experience the idea of "hot." One experiences low Quality
    >first, then the ideas of burning, scorching, searing, roasting,
    >sizzling, scalding . . . whatever . . . all measurable, "objective"
    >phenomena or "matter."
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