From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Aug 13 2003 - 17:46:25 BST
Platt wrote:
>Hi Lars,
>
>First, a warm welcome to the discussion of the MOQ. New blood is like
>DQ, creating new value patterns of thought. You've set the stage for a
>fresh avenues of inquiry.
Platt, is Lars DQ? Perhaps all things that you think are DQ are only "like
DQ", and are in fact more like Lars? Ie, they are patterns that have been
around, existing and experiencing things, but you have never crossed paths
with them before? Lars's blood is not new, he's had it all his life, and it
was conceived by his mom and dad in a very natural and unambiguous way, it
was never undefined or other-worldly.
(Hi Lars - I'm a DQ party-pooper here, I believe "DQ" is used as a religious
fudge factor to introduce subjective opinion into any discourse, as well as
a 7th Calvary to weasel out of tight spots in arguments about the
metaphysics. If you want to justify breaking a moral pattern, just cite
"DQ" and you're all set. If something is contradictory or tautological,
just cite "DQ" and your all set. I do see a role for something that can be
called DQ in the creation of new patterns when existing patterns cross
paths, but I see it as completely deterministic, its creations entirely the
necessary result of other static patterns.)
> > The piece of information is for those of you who are interested in
> > Pirsig-related ideas gaining greater currency in the mainstream of
> > academic thinking. In the humanities at least, a book I recently read
> > seems to suggest that there might be some prospect of this. The book is
> > 'Myth, Truth and Literature' by Colin Falck, which was published in 1989
> > or 1990, and has been widely tipped to initiate a new direction in the
> > study of the humanities. Camille Paglia, for example, wrote, "Literary
> > studies are in a period of chaos: the age of theory is over, but it's
> > not clear what is taking shape. Mr.Falck's book is a map for the
> > future." The relevance of all this is that Falck's ideas are heavily
> > influenced by 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.' To someone
> > who has read both books, the influence is clear if unspoken (Mr.Falck
> > doesn't explicitly use the term 'Quality' for example, but he relates
> > his ideas of literary value to 'arete' and 'dharma'), and Mr.Falck
> > acknowledges it explicitly in his final footnote: "My final
> > acknowledgement must be to Robert M.Pirsig's once-acclaimed but now (it
> > seems) almost forgotten ficitional masterpiece _Zen and the Art of
> > Motorcycle Maintenance_ [...] Much of what I have argued in this present
> > book is only an intellectual elaboration of Pirsig's fine insights." So
> > there's an indication that even if he isn't a very visible presence,
> > Mr.Pirsig has still had some guiding influence on the current generation
> > of academics, and may have more in the future. Apologies if this has
> > already been discussed, or if it is not of interest to this discussion
> > group.
>
>Thanks for bringing Falck's book to the forefront. I hadn't known about
>it, but any book recommended by Camille Paglia has got to be worth
>reading. Incidentally, I noticed that "Myth, Truth & Literature" is
>number 650,886 in Amazon sales rank compared to "Lila's Child" at
>83,223 and "Lila" at 24,144. Popularity says nothing about the value of
>a book, but it's good to know that Pirsig's metaphysics is far from
>being ignored even if it remains in the backwaters of academia.
>
> > My question concerns Stephen Wolfram's 'A New Kind of Science.' Do those
> > of you who are familiar with Mr.Wolfram's work feel that its
> > philosophical implications are MOQ-compatible or not? I am not
> > sufficiently familiar with Wolfram's work to make a full judgment, but I
> > was struck by his suggestion that his 'principle of computational
> > equivalence' indicates that thought, will and intentionality may be
> > present in all aspects of the universe, which seemed to me to recall a
> > strain of animism in Mr.Pirsig's writing- particularly in 'Lila.' Again,
> > apologies if this has already been discussed or is not deemed
> > interesting.
>
>I don't think we've ever discussed Wolfram's work here. But if he says
>thought, will and intentionality may be present in all aspects of the
>universe, then his connection to the MOQ is strong indeed. What strikes
>me most about Wolfram is his belief that nature uses simple programs to
>create all the complexities we see. But they can't be just any old
>programs. They must be programs that start with the right pattern and
>proceed according to the right rules. "Right," of course, is what the
>MOQ is all about.
>
>I'm sure all this will engender further discussion. In the meantime, I
>hope you find this site to be a good experience despite the many
>different views.
>
>Platt
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