Fw: MD On Death

From: Gert-Jan Peeters (gjpeeters@home.nl)
Date: Thu Aug 14 2003 - 18:55:08 BST

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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Gert-Jan Peeters
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 3:33 PM
    Subject: Re: MD On Death

    Hi All,

    Death is all around me these days..
    That made me wonder if the MoQ has anything to say about that.
    So.. Can anyone give me a link to a message posted once on this forum or
    give me a good quote from the books about this subject. I couldn't find
    anything in my quicksearch.. What are your thoughts about death if you
    should explain it in MoQ terms..

    Filosofy has brought me breathing space once before..



    Hello GJ,
    I am sorry to hear you have been experiencing some distress.
    A relative of mine died recently, and so death has been in my thoughts also.
    What would the MoQ say about death?
    We are patterns that emerge from Quality and then sink back into the
    background stream.
    While here, our patterns contribute to the overall evolution of experience,
    we each make a difference.
    You are keeping those who have died alive.
    Wishing you well, and please feel free to talk...
    squonk :)
    Thanx Squonk,
    You said 'we are patterns that emerge from Quality and then sink back into
    the background stream'. Yes.. very well. It makes me think about the bhudist
    'wave in the sea'. Where people are waves in the sea, a pattern, not a
    'person' with boundaries that end where our skin ends.
    We have made levels with the MoQ. When someone dies, we MoQ'ers die in many
    levels. All of them are worth speaking about. There all equally interesting.
    One dies in many ways.
    A definition of life is kinda hard. A definition of Death seems a lot
    easier. And if I would ask here to give me one, I'd probably get a
    intellectual/physics definition. Where one talks about the physical side of
    death. 'The system is alive when it is unbalanced. Moving around a strange
    attractor. Now it reached the attractor so it died!" something like that,
    probably. What would happen if you would explain what a social death is.
    - Social Death -
    Every time a pattern ends - it dies. When a lower pattern 'kills' a higher
    pattern we call it immoral. Every death of a relative in some way.. is an
    immoral death. But not for all. Its interresting to see how different deaths
    have different effects on you. You said "While here, our patterns contribute
    to the overall evolution of experience". It triggered the 'Experience-node'
    idea. As if people where experience-nodes connected to eachother. A network
    filled with eachothers experience-patterns. As soon as one of those nodes
    seizes to exist. The whole surrounding network feels the shock of the just
    created gap. Cluthing at every experience-node residu that's left there to
    find. We keep some patterns alive. Their ideas, their kindness. Sometimes we
    keep different artifacts and even their ashes. Some things become holy.
    'I still hear her voice telling me to do this and better don't do that',
    Yes.. I think after many years of marriage or friendship you really have
    that person IN you. And in our western way of thinking you have a little
    problem there. You're probably kind a mad or have an overdosis melancholy if
    you still see you're wife's look on her face when you wear that funny
    jacket. She would say 'are you really going to wear That to my funeral?' And
    most of us - wild guess there - would listen to that voice inside you and
    change clothes. She didn't wake from the dead. You become your surroundings
    over the years. You become the ones you love. Your patterns merge. After the
    biological body stopped functioning her pattern residu is still there.. In
    you and all that knew her.
    A ritual like a funeral won't take these pattern residu away.. (I noticed)
    -Rituals, Social Rebounce -
    What's this annyway with these silly rituals. Yes, I use the word silly, but
    are fully aware of there importance. In my 'world', we put the death person
    in a wooden box. Bring them to a little room where everybody can take a last
    look. say something in-audible, put some flowers there and thats it for that
    day. The next day you go to another special place, mostly a church. There is
    this 'ritual leader' that perfoms all kinds of things and says something
    about the death person. Sometimes - and that are the interessting parts -
    someone close to the deceased tells something personal. But that only
    happens one or two times during the whole ritual. Then you bring the wooden
    box to a graveyard or a crematorium. Perform some other rituals and then
    you're free to breath. You would expect that people would tell each other
    things about the deceased. But No!. We drink coffee, eat some bread. And
    then, after hours of rituals - the fun begins.. We make jokes - evaluate the
    whole ritual and summerize what went wrong. Talk about the crying frequency
    of this and that aunt. Ask who that strange person in the back of the room
    is. And make remarks about the fact that uncle peter never showed in
    hospital, Look at him steal the show now..what a hypocrit. Annyway.. Maybe
    you need this dull long lasting ritual to create this moment of fun with
    those who all have something in common. Funerals are no fun!! But the
    Funeral AfterParty IS!!!    and that makes it all silly, doesn't it?
    It shows you again that we're all players in a play. Playing our part. No
    place for Dynamic Quality during a funeral. The better the performance of
    the ritual the higher the quality. So we can say - it was a 'good'
    funeral -. But I still have my questions about the real function of these
    rituals. The MoQ might bring me answers.
    -Intellectual Death vs Social Death -
    It seems that if we split up Death into MoQ levels that something funny
    happens. It looks like the definition of death shifts to a whole new set of
    rules. Social Death doesn't have to occur at the same time a Biological
    Death occurs. And Intellectual Death.. well.. I think that if we keep
    someones ideas 'alive' their ideas aint death yet. But if I would say such a
    thing I also assume a 'person' can never be 'intellectuel alive'. Only ideas
    are intellectual alive.
    What if someone died here in the MoQ? Would we notice? If you are a frequent
    poster we would.. maybe.. probably not. In this concept arena only ideas
    die! Do we have funerals for deceased idea's? It would be to time consuming,
    wouldn't it? You all put your ideas on the forum. Some of you know each
    other better then let's say - you know your own neighbour. One can tell from
    your discussions. What if you would die? would we know? Would you tell us if
    you are about to pass away due to cancer? Would you tell your readers? (who
    knows how many there are these days).. Well, would you tell us? And would we
    notice if you didn't?
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