From: abahn@comcast.net
Date: Sun Aug 17 2003 - 22:44:07 BST
David,
Sorry, I was running out the door and I may not have finished my thought.
I said previously:
I don't want to go too deep into this because I will quickly get into trouble.
When it comes to philosophy and the classics in particular I am an amatuer. But
Descartes argument for what he could know began with the foundation of his
existence. It was all he could be sure of. But, from this fundamental Truth,he
used deduction to reach other fundamental Truths. Such as GOD Exists.
So, to conclude:
Descarte uses his proof beginning with his "sure" knowledge of his existence and
proceeds to deduce other Truths. I think many credit these ingenious,
innovative and influential proofs as the beginning of the scientific method.
This would be one example of a "Truth tribunal." We begin with some assumptions
that we can be relatively sure of (axioms) and from these we can deduce other
Truths. But, to repeat again, Rorty says we cannot get closer to knowing Truths,
because Truth is a property of language, not of the world.
Rorty:
"To say that the world is out there, that is not our creation, is to say with
common sense, that most things in space and time are effects of causes which do
not include human mental states. To say that truth is not out there is simply
to say that where there are no sentences there is no truth, that sentences are
elements of human language, and that human languages are human creations.
…Truth cannot be out there – cannot exist independently of the human mind –
because sentences cannot so exist, or be out there. The world is out there, but
descriptions of the world are not. Only descriptions of the world can be true
or false. The world on its own – unaided by the describing activities of human
beings – cannot " Contingency, Irony and Solidarity.
Hope this helps, but I am not holding my breath.
Andy
> David,
>
> I don't want to go too deep into this because I will quickly get into trouble.
> When it comes to philosophy and the classics in particular I am an amatuer. But
> Descartes argument for what he could know began with the foundation of his
> existence. It was all he could be sure of. But, from this fundamental Truth,
> he used deduction to reach other fundamental Truths. Such as GOD Exists.
>
> Andy
>
>
> > Andy, Matt and all:
> >
> > Andy said:
> > Your assertion that the tribunal is a "ghost" might be the most accurate
> > description, because--as I mentiones earlier--the tribunal is a metaphor.
> > It permeates our culture in the myths we live by. It is all around us.
> > Science is based on it. History. Mathematics. What this myth (western
> > science, culture, philosophy) tells us is that if we use the proper
> > methodology we can get closer to the Truth. That there is a Truth out
> > there. ...
> >
> > dmb says:
> > Let me try this another way. Let's take Descartes as an example because
> > almost everybody is familiar with him and his most famous idea is discussed
> > in Lila. As I understand it, this frog was famous for coming to the
> > conclusion that the only thing he could really be sure of was his own
> > existence. "I think, therefor I am." It has been asserted here that he is
> > one of many who believe "that if we use the proper methodology we can get
> > closer to the Truth, with a capital "T". Now how do we reconcile this
>
> > assertion with Descartes' own claim that he could know almost nothing at
> > all, except that exists!? These two positions are so very far away from each
> > other that they are approximately opposite positions. And this is just one
> > of the many reasons why this claim seems so outlandish to me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > dmb
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> > Mail Archives:
> > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> > Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
> >
> > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
> >
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Aug 17 2003 - 22:54:39 BST