Re: MD What is a person?

From: David MOREY (
Date: Wed Oct 08 2003 - 19:30:30 BST

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    Also interesting and with quite a lot of agreement from me.
    Agency is associated with the capacity to use conceptual
    models to examine different possible futures and make choices.
    I wonder if quantum physics and its probability fields should be
    seen as a sort of presence of the future in the now, a probability
    field is the presentation in the now of the options available in the
    given circumstances/situation/historic place and time. Agency is then
    linked to the collapse of the wave function, choice/contingency/event
    reduces the possible/transcendent to the actual/particular. I think Penrose
    thinks a bit like this. So that agency should be seen as an aspect of time,
    and reflects that time is the passing of the possible/open into the
    of particularity/event/finitude.

    David Morey

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Wim Nusselder" <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:37 PM
    Subject: Re: MD What is a person?

    > Dear Paul & others involved in this thread,
    > Would it be useful to use 'person' for the patterns of value recognized as
    > and associated to someone by others?
    > It would then be something like what you wrote 7 Oct 2003 10:50:44 +0100
    > except for the '[Dynamic] capability to change for the better':
    > 'an inorganic pattern of stable quantum probabilities, organised by DNA
    > a biological body valuing survival and reproduction, many social
    > relationships valuing status, authority, and social stability, a
    > of structured concepts and ideas valuing a coherent conceptual
    > explanation and prediction of experience'.
    > We can recognize change in others and associate new/changed patterns of
    > value with that person, because they somehow come as a 'whole' with
    > old/unchanged ones. We cannot detect 'capability for change' in others,
    > however.
    > They way we experience our 'selves', our 'I'-experience, is then that
    > 'capability to change for the better' within the limitations that are set
    > the fact that (the different patterns of value of) our 'person' cannot
    > change faster than the normal pace of change at their respective levels of
    > static quality.
    > 'I' am/is caged in my 'person'/'personality'. 'I' can only 'act' with/on
    > existing patterns of value. 'Agency' is never free-floating, but always
    > linked/chained to 'personality'.
    > The modern inability to recognize divine (ultimate) agency is the
    > to recognize the whole of 'creation', all patterns of value, as belonging
    > together, as a 'personal God'.
    > With friendly greetings,
    > Wim
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