From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Oct 08 2003 - 19:30:30 BST
Wim
Also interesting and with quite a lot of agreement from me.
Agency is associated with the capacity to use conceptual
models to examine different possible futures and make choices.
I wonder if quantum physics and its probability fields should be
seen as a sort of presence of the future in the now, a probability
field is the presentation in the now of the options available in the
given circumstances/situation/historic place and time. Agency is then
linked to the collapse of the wave function, choice/contingency/event
reduces the possible/transcendent to the actual/particular. I think Penrose
thinks a bit like this. So that agency should be seen as an aspect of time,
and reflects that time is the passing of the possible/open into the
present/past
of particularity/event/finitude.
regards
David Morey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wim Nusselder" <wim.nusselder@antenna.nl>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: MD What is a person?
> Dear Paul & others involved in this thread,
>
> Would it be useful to use 'person' for the patterns of value recognized as
> and associated to someone by others?
>
> It would then be something like what you wrote 7 Oct 2003 10:50:44 +0100
> except for the '[Dynamic] capability to change for the better':
> 'an inorganic pattern of stable quantum probabilities, organised by DNA
into
> a biological body valuing survival and reproduction, many social
> relationships valuing status, authority, and social stability, a
collection
> of structured concepts and ideas valuing a coherent conceptual
organisation,
> explanation and prediction of experience'.
> We can recognize change in others and associate new/changed patterns of
> value with that person, because they somehow come as a 'whole' with
> old/unchanged ones. We cannot detect 'capability for change' in others,
> however.
>
> They way we experience our 'selves', our 'I'-experience, is then that
> 'capability to change for the better' within the limitations that are set
by
> the fact that (the different patterns of value of) our 'person' cannot
> change faster than the normal pace of change at their respective levels of
> static quality.
> 'I' am/is caged in my 'person'/'personality'. 'I' can only 'act' with/on
> existing patterns of value. 'Agency' is never free-floating, but always
> linked/chained to 'personality'.
>
> The modern inability to recognize divine (ultimate) agency is the
inability
> to recognize the whole of 'creation', all patterns of value, as belonging
> together, as a 'personal God'.
>
> With friendly greetings,
>
> Wim
>
>
>
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