Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon Oct 13 2003 - 19:02:30 BST

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    Hi
    thanks for info

    regards
    David M
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Patrick van den Berg" <cirandar@yahoo.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:19 AM
    Subject: Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

    > Hi David H,
    >
    > Your posts are interesting as usual.
    >
    > --- David MOREY <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
    > > Hi
    > >
    > > Language all the way down, perceptions full of value judgements,
    > > intelligence all over the place, I'm sure we've taken a long walk away
    > > from
    > > physicalism somewhere. My main point below was to break up what looks
    > > to me like rather dogmatic thinking over the idea of an intellectual
    > > level.
    > > Mainly as a support to some of Scott's inclinations towards putting
    > > intelligence/
    > > purpose back into nature/cosmos. I think DQ really calls for a rethink
    > > about
    > > time, that we may be wrong to think cause (past) produces effect
    > > (now).
    > > I am trying to think of the potential of the idea that the future
    > > (many-possible) sacrifices its
    > > potential to produce finite(this-world)/now. It is a way of dealing
    > > with the
    > > many-world
    > > nature of quantum-potential without suggesting that there must
    > > actually be a
    > > creation of many
    > > worlds every time quantum potential collapses. You see the future in
    > > quantum
    > > theory (FIELDS)
    > > exists before the now (particle/event). And this is true of our actual
    > > experience, our awareness
    > > of the future alters what we do in the present.
    >
    > It's even stronger than that. The future can alter the past in physical
    > and biological (conscious) systems.
    > Wheeler's delayed choice experiment measures the location of fotons
    > AFTER the fotons (should) have passed the slits. But still the
    > wavepattern dissapears on the screen. So the quantum potential is a
    > whole timespan in which 'past', 'present' and 'future' has no meaning,
    > and this you can deduce from the collapsed patterns on the screen.
    > The future can also change the past for us humans. In a way, if you have
    > a precognitive dream (dream about a future event) you can also describe
    > this as a now-event (the actualilty) that influences the past (the
    > dream).
    >
    > We're made of matter (or levels) that have these properties, but there
    > is scientific evidence of e.g. retrokinesis, people influencing decay of
    > radioactive particles (which should be random according to conventional
    > explanation) AFTER they have been recorded. This would mean that people
    > can influence the collapse of a wavefunction in the past (or that the
    > collapse of this wavefunction in the now is influenced by a conscious
    > observer in the future), or that in unobserved states, the wavefunction
    > collapses only when people observe it consciously. The latter
    > explanation would mean that a tape-recorder with recorded 0's and 1's is
    > in a superposition until someone plays the information on it, (which
    > then is collapsed in nonrandom directions by the conscious observer.)
    >
    > I've tried to locate an article by Dick Bierman on the web, but the
    > links are broken. But people like him and Dean Radin and all have some
    > convincing amount of experiments on this, if you're interested you could
    > look on the web with these names.
    >
    > Greetings, Patrick
    >
    >
    >
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