From: MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Sat Nov 01 2003 - 22:34:53 GMT
DMB said:
As far as characterizing Rorty's position, you agree when I say "truth and morality are not things in themselves, but are attributes of particular statements and facts". But you disagree when I say "truth and morality, in and of themselves, don't really exist. They are subjective qualities". As the author of those two sentences, let me assure that both of them were intended to express the same idea.
Matt:
Oh, I knew you intended it, but I'm saying they aren't the same idea, that there was an inference made between the two, and I'm denying the inference.
DMB said:
Praggys might not actually say that truth and morality are only subjective qualities, but does it really express a different idea to say they are only attributes based on intersubjective agreement? Hardly at all. SOM stances vary widely from materialism to idealism and everything in between. It seems pretty clear to me that Rorty's stance is just one variation on this theme. Maybe he doesn't call to call it ontology, but to assert that there is nothing to be said about truth, to assert there is nothing general or useful or philosophically interesting, and then assert that truth is a propery, a quality, an attribute of some other thing... Well, one might as well deny its existence. As you might like to put it, that's how it cashes out. It treats truth and morality as merely subjective, which is the problem that got Pirsig started in the first place.
Matt:
Nope.
DMB said:
How can you honestly claim that Rorty paints a picture of truth as something as real as rocks and trees? How can you say that without doing ontology? How can keep a traight face? ;-)
Matt:
What do mystics say? One day you just wake up and see it, understand it? Here's hoping for your own apple.
And any ways, I never keep a straight face when I do philosophy. Pragmatists are notoriously playful and stay away from the serious, dour-faced metaphysicians, except when poking fun at them.
Matt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 01 2003 - 22:40:01 GMT