From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Fri Feb 06 2004 - 02:19:52 GMT
In a message dated 2/6/04 1:54:33 AM GMT Standard Time, mattpoot@hotmail.com
writes:
> Eureka!! it is "EXCELLENCE"!!!! It is quite easy to go from there, and take
>
> excellence, and turn it into.....what....Quality! Sophists did not teach
> good as value, but excellence! quality! Voila! cest magnifique! tres bon!
> non?
>
Hello Poot,
Please forgive me for jumping in? You are absolutely spot on.
The sophists, like Protagoras, knew all about mathematics and logic (Zeno),
and they said such things were excellent if it was pragmatic for those who not
only wished, but had the potential to excel in them. Arte is excellence no
matter what the field: An excellent physique, an excellence in social art,
excellence in intellectual pursuits. It is the excellence - Quality, as you rightly
point out, which is THE most important thing to understand.
Protagoras was quite willing to condemn maths and geometry for those who had
no chance of achieving excellence in them. But if that was the sincere wish of
talented young potential, then maths and geometry would be taught - usually
by recommending another sophist who was excellent in these areas.
Those sophists who taught rhetoric would have spoken of mathematics by way of
art and creative analogy - exactly as Poincaré understood - maths is
pragmatic and useful for its excellence.
Poincaré concluded that the axioms of geometry are conventions, our
choice among all possible conventions is guided by experimental facts,
but it remains free and is limited only by the necessity of avoiding all
contradiction. Thus it is that the postulates can remain rigorously true
even though the experimental laws that have determined their adoption
are only approximative. The axioms of geometry, in other words, are
merely disguised definitions." [ZMM p.270]
It is no wonder beautiful mathematics then has practical application later
on? But the excellence comes first, and as you correctly understand: excellence
is Quality. Not merely social quality, but Quality what ever the human
endeavour.
You understand Poot. You have got it. Excellence IS Quality.
Thanks Poot.
All the best,
Mark
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