Re: MD Objectivity, Truth and the MOQ

Date: Sun Feb 08 2004 - 18:37:56 GMT

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    Joe and All

    5 Feb. you wrote:

    > joe: i would like to muse about "the MOQ rearranges EVERYTHING"!
    > LILA, An inquiry into Morals, a book written by R. Pirsig, is the
    > start of the MOQ. ZMM laid the groundwork by exploring QUALITY, and
    > comparing rhetoric and the dialectic. "Rhetoric 2, dialectic 0." A
    > pitfall he explored, if a persopn places his knowledge of his
    > existence outside the mythos, he is considered insane.

    Yes, that's true, but the mythos Phaedrus trespassed was not the
    Ancient myth, but the Subject/Object one.
    > A part of the mythos he was concerned with was Quality (freedom) and
    > definition.

    You mean Dynamic/Static? Yes, but this new Myth - his own
    Metaphysics - was something utterly vague in the ZMM.

    > 'God' was accepted by SOM as a word in the mythos that
    > was both Quality and undefined.

    In what myth?

    > As a teacher in a state-run
    > university, a part of the rhetoric he was reluctant to use was: 'God'
    > or 'Gods'. There was something special about the word 'God' that made
    > it unusable. IMO before MOQ 'God' is an unusable word since SOM
    > viewed the apprehension of the existence of God through a 'mystical'
    > knowledge.

    This contains a lot of great insights, "God" was unsuitable in SOM
    for the reason you give ...true. Much could be said here.

    > The entomology of the word 'mystic' is from the Greek word meaning 'an
    > initiate'. IMO mystical knowledge implies that by training, directing
    > my attention to specifics, I learn things I would not ordinarily
    > apprehend. The training forces the learner to see new things. "The
    > MOQ rearranges EVERYTHING" by preferring a mystical rhetoric to a
    > reasonable dialectic. I agree.

    Yes by Jove it requires a certain initiation to see that the MOQ is
    a new Myth - one that rearranges everything, like SOM (as
    intellect) did in its time. Maybe one may say that Society and
    Biology did so in their time.

    > Bo:
    > It requires a little juggling, but the important first step is to see
    > that intellect is a static level and as blind to the Quality context
    > as the rest of the levels.
    > joe: IMO the mythos is known mystically. The training of education
    > and ordinary life experiences force me to accept the mythos. I now
    > have a basis for my being and my actions.

    Yes, but how is the shift to the Quality Myth to come about? As I
    see it most all of this discussion group is stuck in the SOM myth.
    > IMO "An inquiry into Morals" is outside the mythos. In the MOQ I
    > accept the inorganic, organic, social, and intellectual orders not by
    > any mystic initiation, but in some other way. The dividing line
    > between the orders is Dynamic Quality. I see that "intellect is a
    > static level" when speaking of the intellectual order. IMO the MOQ
    > accepts that when I apprehend the dividing line between the moral
    > orders, I know the Quality of intellect, of social, of organic, of
    > inorganic value in a moral hiearchy. I can see the dividing line as
    > S/O, but I am not "blind to the Quality context." The questions I
    > have: Does limitation equal definition? No! Does value limit
    > Quality? Yes!

    A deep one this, I'm not sure if I get the gist of it.

    > Depending upon how I view evolution from an inorganic order, to an
    > organic order, to a social order, to an intellectual order, to
    > self-awareness, will determine where I place 'self-awareness'. IMO I
    > consider self-awareness' a planetary (the inorganic order) emanation.
    > If I travel beyond the universe, my self-awareness apprehends a
    > different emanation.

    You must have the black belt of complicated style ;-) and I dare
    not comment. A journey beyond the universe I haven't
    considered yet.

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