Re: MD When is a metaphysics not a metaphysics?

From: Matthew Poot (
Date: Sat Feb 28 2004 - 07:19:36 GMT

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    What I will say, will relate to quality in the end. It may seem like 'chit
    chat' without all of the MoQ terms, but I hope you will grasp better what I
    try to say from it, and how it directly relates to Quality, in life. keep

    Matt K:You can lament this fact. Like Alasdair MacIntyre, you can recognize
    the current situation philosophy is in and deplore this fact and try and
    encourage its reversal. For Western political thinkers like myself,
    however, we think these suggestions and lamentations are fruitless
    nostalgia. We think them fruitless, not necessarily because the situation
    couldn't be reversed (though that is sometimes the case do to structural
    circumstances outside of the way we speak), but because we think the gains
    of our current situation outweigh the losses. We think the freedom to
    choose whether you do philosophy or not outweighs the benefits of everyone
    having Plato's Republic memorized. We don't think philosophy itself is
    useless or fruitless, we simply think it sits alongside with all the other
    tools we use for social change. Philosophy is a good handmaiden to
    politics, but a poor master.

    Matt P: Well...I disagree with you here. You say that you think them
    (attempts at reversal) fruitless. Well, I am not suggesting reversal. I am
    suggesting change (of course!). I do not think that it would be fair to say
    'reversing' , and that change (dynamics) are the major affectors (nothing
    new here).

    You say that you think the gains of our current situation , outwiegh the
    May I ask one question? What world do you live in? You say we have
    freedom to choose! BAH! I live in Canada, and it seems to be more liberal
    here than in many places in the states (Yes, I have spent time there [much
    time as a child]).

    Yet, what is the freedom to choose, when you are only given a certain
    criteria to choose from? I may be sounding like some sort of dreamy
    idealist who is disillusioned, but just hear me out.

    In terms of the 'criteria' I speak of, these are criteria for 'success'. If
    you want to 'be someone' than you have to make certain choices. Do you want
    to satisfy your personal and social needs, or will you satisfy your
    professional and monetary needs. There is less , and less, and less room
    available for becoming well-rounded, and thinking laterally.

    Pirsig said that he would ride out, and spend a few days in the mountains,
    ride back in for food, and keep doing it. Would I not do this ? Yes. But
    can I do! I'm not saying we should all do no work....but

    #1 factor: $$$$$

    This is what I 'need' in my life now: Money, _work_. These are two
    things, which one is FORCED into. People choose to study subjects which
    only have the prospect of making good money, and _seem_ interesting. What
    do they get in return? They end up being one of the - - - million people
    working in a cubicle, sending e-mails, memos,and typing up useless
    documents. Either that, or they have some other job which provides them no
    stimulation, and is simply known as "Work". This 'work' that leads to no
    personal development, satisfaction, or gratification.

    The choice of doing what one loves, and doing something to make a good
    'living' are about the most mangled subjects. The idea is taught that if /
    when you find a good profession , than you stick with it, because you love
    it. Most people do not even love their jobs! Therfor, they do not _care_
    and we all know what this leads to.........complete and utter lack of

    I have said much more, but deleted it because I'm straying ....

    MATT K: Philosophy is a good handmaiden to politics, but a poor master.

    matt P: Handmaiden....Master? Lets not get into Nietszche here. "It" is not
    about being Master or Handmaiden, or being better or worse. Its about being
    the BEST. Good. Excellence. Quality. striving for something, instead of
    being happy with what you have to be happy with.

    Also, you say that it is a better hand-maiden to politics. Then, based on
    this, you are assuming that politics is different, and above philosophy in
    the heirarchy of things. This is dead wrong IMO.

    Politics = practical philosophy.

     I am not making the connection very well right now, but it would / will
    take a lot of research, and would/will be quite lengthy.

    Questions and comments will be appreciated.



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