From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Mon Mar 22 2004 - 07:36:28 GMT
Dear David B.,
You wrote 20 Mar 2004 12:48:22 -0700:
'Pirsig's definitions of the levels allows us to make a distinction that
yours does not.'
I make the very same distinction as you do. Only for me it is a distinction
within the intellectual level.
In my variant of the MoQ the options in this conflict within the
intellectual level can be combined with different options in conflicts
within the social level (e.g. confrontational versus cooperative behaviour
or the distinctions between primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary
societies/economies that I make in my 'economics of want and greed').
Because of this possibility to combine options on the intellectual level
with options on the social level, my explanations can accommodate more
complexity.
You too once (26 Jan 2002 19:50:16 -0700) proposed a more complex
distinction than a mere liberal versus conservative distinction when you
referred us to www.politicalcompass.org . The double distinction (economic
left/right and authoritarian/libertarian) you used then cannot be directly
associated with the distinction between the social and intellectual levels
either.
You wrote 20 Mar 2004 16:36:22 -0700:
'in Pirsigian terms, these two rivals [liberalism and conservatism]
basically represent the conflict between intellectual and social values'
I prefer to use 'values' only in the sense of 'the values of
stability/versatility of patterns of value'. Translated to my distinction
within the intellectual level I would say:
In Pirsigian terms liberalism and conservatism represent the conflict
between intellectual justifications of behaviour as 'truthful' and
intellectual justifications of behaviour as necessary for the well-being of
society.
In line with Pirsig combined with Wilber I would call for a combination of
these justifications that 'migrates' towards DQ, i.e. from conservatism via
liberalism towards ...
You wrote 20 Mar 2004 16:36:22 -0700:
'What the MOQ calls for is an intellectually guided society, some kind of
liberalism or socialism, that does NOT make the mistake of blocking out DQ.'
I'd say that even better than liberalism or socialism understood as implying
authoritarianism -according to the MoQ- would be some kind of capitalism
that IS intellectually guided, but not predominantly through government
intervention, but for instance through people organized in a very diverse
network of NGO's (my quaternary economics).
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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