From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Mar 22 2004 - 12:21:44 GMT
Hi Sam,
> By the way, I came across these two quotes the other day, which I thought
> you might like:
>
> "'For from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding
> perception of their Creator' (Wisdom 13.5) The sky and the air are
> beautiful, the earth and the sea are beautiful. By divine grace the
> universe was called by the Greeks 'cosmos', meaning 'ornament'... Surely
> the author of all created beauty must himself be the beauty in all beauty?"
> [Hilary of Poitiers, The Trinity]
>
> "[God is beauty.] This Beauty is the source of all friendship and all
> mutual understanding. It is this beauty... which moves all living things
> and preserves them whilst filling them with love and desire for their own
> particular sort of beauty. For each one, therefore, Beauty is both its
> limit and the object of its love, since it is its goal... and its model
> (for it is by its likeness to this Beauty that everything is defined). Thus
> true Beauty-and-Goodness are mixed together because, whatever the force may
> be that moves living things, it tends always towards Beauty-and-Goodness,
> and there is nothing that does not have a share in Beauty-and-Goodness."
Wonderful quotes. Thanks for sharing.
> PS, just looking back at what you wrote. How do you distinguish
> 'naturalistic' from 'objective'? ie, where do the values which determine
> what is perceived come in?
SOM, the metaphysics we highly value because its built in to those
cultural spectacles we're handed practically at birth, says that to a
subject everything is an object, including the subject himself. (Who is
the I that knows me?). So there's really no difference between
'naturalistic' and 'objective.' I make no distinction between the two.
For me, and I think for Pirsig, 'naturalistic' refers to whatever is
empirical, based on his insistence that the MOQ goes farther than even
logical positivism in relying on empiricism:
"The Metaphysics of Quality restates the empirical basis of logical
positivism with more precision, more inclusiveness, more explanatory power
than it has previously had. It says that values are not outside of the
experience that logical positivism limits itself to. They are the essence
of this experience. Values are more empirical, in fact, than subjects or
objects." (Lila-5)
As you know logical positivism is, if nothing else, 'objective' and
'naturalistic.' Pirsig's commitment to empiricism also means he rejects
all faith-based religions.
Best,
Platt
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