Re: MD cultural level??

From: Dan Glover (
Date: Sun Apr 04 2004 - 03:17:37 BST

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    Hello everyone

    >From: Bart Scholten <>
    >To: moq <>
    >Subject: Re: MD cultural level??
    >Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:50:41 +0200
    >Hello Platt and Wim (dutch too?).
    >With growing interest I have been following your discussions and today I
    >received Lila's Child in the mail. The book looks promising and I will
    >certainly enjoy it just as I enjoyed Pirsig's books.

    Hi Bart

    Welcome to the group and thank you for supporting the Lila's Child project.
    May the book meet with your expectations.

    >Ever since reading the other two books I have been thinking about them
    >and how MOQ could be used to interpret and understand different cultures.
    >From your discussions I notice that you also find there is more than just
    >distinction of social and intellectual levels.

    I think Robert Pirsig discusses this in Lila in the Dusenberry section. You
    may also want to take a look at "The Montana Cree: A Study in Religious
    Persistence" by Verne Dusenberry and Lynn Dusenberry Crow, which Anthony
    McWatt recommended to the group some time back. The problem as I understand
    it is how to interpret a different culture without becoming so immersed
    within it that the interpretation becomes corrupted. To understand another
    culture from the context of our own would seem to be out of the question. A
    person has to become part of another culture to understand it and in doing
    so the context is changed.

    >So far there is no mention of any cultural influence on the levels. When I
    >look around me and read the papers, I cannot neglect the notion that social
    >and intellectual levels are perceived differently within different
    >Certainly the meaning of the words social and intellectual are cultural
    >dependant! So is MOQ cultural dependant?

    This seems to relate to the "I think therefore I am" section in Lila and
    also to the Bohr quote about how we are suspended in language. I think the
    MOQ would say yes to your question.

    >Does this mean that there is a cultural level above the social and
    >intellectual level? or how can we look at his?

    At the risk of ruining your reading: Lila's Child, annotation #28, RMP
    writes: "For precision, I would say a culture contains social and
    intellectual values, but not biological or inorganic." Annotation #47 reads:
    "I think a culture should be defined as social patterns plus intellectual
    patterns." So it's not that there's a level above social and intellectual
    levels but rather, according to the MOQ, those levels together can be viewed
    as culture.

    Thanks again,


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