Re: MD The Individual in the MOQ

From: Wim Nusselder (
Date: Fri Apr 16 2004 - 22:38:11 BST

  • Next message: "Re: MD The Individual Level"

    Dear Dave S.,

    Welcome on this list. From your credentials and sketch of the possible role
    of the MoQ in the philosophical landscape, your contributions will be very

    Yes, the similarities between Wilber and Pirsig have been noted before on
    this list. Appreciation of Wilber varies between different contributors to
    the discussion about his ideas. I could direct you to archive items
    (accessible via devoted to these discussions if you want.
    You're not the only one who thinks Wilber's theories superior to Pirsig's.
    Personally, I see Wilber's ideas (from what I understood from reading a
    Dutch book summarizing his ideas in some 380 pages) as complementary to
    Pirsig's ideas, more specifically: not as directly comparable to Pirsig's
    levels of value, but as a subdivision of Pirsig's intellectual level.

    The intellectual level, according to Pirsig in his annotations to 'Lila's
    Child', is the same as 'mind' and can be defined as 'the collection and
    manipulation of symbols, created in the brain, that stand for patterns of
    experience'. Intellectual patterns of value reflect everything, 'from matter
    to life ... to spirit' into 'mind'. Wilber's 'evolution of consciousness' is
    in my view 'intellectual evolution' projected back into the past before the
    intellectual level had emerged. These early phases of Wilber's 'evolution of
    consciousness' are very speculative in my view and less relevant than the
    later ones. 'Lila's Child' is a published summary of the discussions in the
    early years of this discussion list.

    Yes, some contributors to this list communicate with Pirsig by letters. Some
    of these letters have been published on . The latest one
    mentioned in this list was a letter from Pirsig to Paul Turner, which Paul
    included in his contribution of 29 Sep 2003 16:52:03 +0100.

    With friendly greetings,


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