From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jul 04 2004 - 20:14:25 BST
Arlo
Keep going this is good stuff.
How much richer the world would be
if we only produced quality goods and
services that had beauty and a working long life.
Also we need to break away from the static
organisation of our corporations where
we fail to use all the dynamic qualities that
the people in these organisations may possess, they
are often too hierarchical.
regards
David Morey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlo J. Bensinger" <ajb102@psu.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
> Platt asked:
>
> > > If our mutual "ax to grind" is using the MOQ to
> > > "improve the general
> > > quality of life" are we, in effect, "putting
> > > philosophy in the service of
> > > a social organization--you in socialism and me in
> > > capitalism--with dogmas
> > > attending both sides?
>
> Gav responded:
>
> > i agree with platt here: it is immoral for the MOQ to
> > be used as a support for any ideology.
> > even though capitalism sits well with free markets it
> > is as static as socialism in other ways:
> > capitalism prefers kitsch to art - generally more
> > popular and therefore profitable; capitalism values an
> > obedient and predictable populace - better for
> > business.
>
> Arlo asks:
>
> Hopefully this won't appear as to novice of a question. How is using the
MOQ to
> illuminate a higher quality view of economics (to speak very broadly) any
> different from Pirsig himself using the MOQ to illuminate a higher quality
view
> of anthropology?
>
> I did not take the conversation to be about the MOQ supporting
"capitalism" or
> "socialism", but about how applying the priniciples of the MOQ can
illuminate
> shortcomings or oversights *in both idealogies* in the discussion. After
all,
> were not the founders of these "idealogies" operating from a SO mindset?
Would
> it not be natural, then, to gather that they built SO duality into these
> systems? (For example, and feel free to dispute this, I am coming to
believe
> that "alienation of labor" is a result of a SO duality in the production
> system, whether discussed by Marx or Pirsig. If using the MOQ to higlight
> alienating activities inherenet in our system as a result of SO duality,
and
> using this as a basis for criticizing the current economic idealogy is
against
> the spirit of the MOQ, I'm not sure I understand what the purpose of the
MOQ
> is?)
>
> Furthermore, and I hope I am not out of place making this observation, but
why
> must this be about something VERSUS something else? Isn't the purpose of
the
> dialogue to transform an understanding within ourselves as to the object
of
> discussion? This notion that both "capitalism" and "socialism" must be
accepted
> or rejected as huge chucks "as is" is ridiculous. If we start with the
notion
> that free markets are more moral, and (as Anthony has indicated) that
> employee-owned companies are more moral, is it not possible to build a
> MOQ-based criticism against the instantiations of any economic system?
This is
> rightfully, I think, just what Gav was doing.
>
> Is it not in the spirit of the MOQ to ask why, if employee-owned companies
are
> more moral the current economic system disfavors them? Or why, in the
current
> system, is it still the norm for labor to be disconnected from Quality (as
> Pirsig laments in ZMM)?
>
> Perhaps these are naive questions, if so, my apologies.
>
> Arlo
>
>
>
>
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