Re-focused re-members:
I'm grateful for the increased traffic. Thanks to all the posters. Now we
have some contested issues on the table and the actual conversation has
begun. Yahoo!
The conversation coach strikes again...
May I remind members to please resist the temptation to import material that
does not appear in the first three chapters? One can't help but notice the
fore-shadowing of his large themes and its good to discuss these matters
because they'll continue to unfold throughout the book. Again, the idea is
to really scrutinize the first three chapter. And since we could easily
spend a couple of weeks just discussing Indian speech patterns, we've got no
time to waste.
Transition from coach to the actual issues...
Today I'd like to take issue with some things Marco said. Roughly speaking,
he's asserted that Dusenberry, and not peyote, was responsible for Pirsig's
mystical vision. Diana has already objected saying, "..it can't be ignored
that a drug was used". And I think that's exactly right. You can't ignore
what's on the pages of those first three chapters! That's the whole idea
behind this re-reading project. I think we need an extra dose of open-minded
intellectual honesty to examine this issue because there is a tremendous
prejudice against both drugs and mysticism in our culture. I'm pretty
convinced that we'll really hear what Pirsig is saying ONLY if we're willing
to suspend those prejudices. Empty cups!
There are other points of contention, but I want to focus on Marco's
assertion for at least two main reasons.
1. An examination of the text clearly shows that its not true.
2. Pirsig's mystical vision is so very central to the book.
At first I thought it would be cool to compare and contrast the encyclopedic
description with Pirsig's own experience. But then it seemed too complicated
and clinical. The easier way is simply to quote the book. He tells us
explicitly and there's no guessing about it. Just look...
"Phaedrus couldn't have gone that distance without the peyote. He would have
just sat there observing all this objectively like a well-trained
anthropology student. But the peyote prevented that. He didn't OBSERVE, he
participated, exactly as Dusenberry had intended."
"Was the peyote just making him sentimental? He didn't think so. It ran
deeper than sentimentality. Sentimentality is a norrowing of experience to
the emotionally familiar. But this was something new opening up."
"The nucleus of this intellectual web was the observation that... Normally
he wouldn't have attached much importance to this, but now, with the peyote
opening up his mind and with his attention having nowhere else to go, he
bored in on it with intensity."
"Then the huge peyote illumination came;
They were the originators!
It expanded until he felt as though he had walked through the screen of a
movie and for the first time watched the people who were projecting it from
the other side.
Most of the rest of the whole trays of slips, many more than a thousand of
them before him here, was a direct growth from this one original insight."
I ask you dear re-readers, can there be ANY doubt? The MOQ is an
intellectual description of this mystical insight, no? Peyote was an
essentiall component of the vision quest, and that experience shifted
Pirsig's consciousness in a very profound way. He was integrated with his
wild half, he was welcomed home for the first time and he was even blessed
with deep intellectual insights. And all of this is really a single thing, a
single event that had consequences in the various aspects of his life. In
telling us about the peyote vision, Pirsig is telling us how "the Great
Spirit" revealed itself to him and took over his intellectual life, no?
*******************************************
The trays and slips. There are so many interesting things about Pirsig's
construction method. But I'm still trying to focus on the same issue. I
mean, that card catalogue represents the building of his metaphysics, no? I
think so. And that intellectual construct is an attempt to re-capture the
insights achieved in his peyote vision, no? I think so. And he's not just
telling how the MOQ was born, he's not just telling us how the book was
organized and ordered, he's telling about the difference between mystical
experience and intellectual knowledge. Its about the difference between DQ
and sQ in real-life terms. It seems important to really zero in on this
material because it impacts everything that follows. Is this not one of the
most contentious areas? Don't most of the disagreements really start here?
Freedom and order. Tripping and building. DQ and sQ. But that's just what I
think.
Talk to me, please. DMB
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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