Rick,
I knew this would happen.
Richard Budd wrote:
> > GLENN:
> > At the risk of having you lecture me about how western society should
> re-examine
> > drugs, I'm going to stick my neck out and say a very uncool, unhip, Dad-like
>
> > thing. This paragraph of yours is irresponsible. We should at least assume
> there
> > are some impressionable people on this forum, particularly those on the
> younger
> > side who are "searching", who might take your "testimony" and do something
> > stupid with drugs and end up hurting themselves, either by overdosing or
> > developing an addiction. Not everyone can experiment with a drug and leave
> it
> > alone. You make drugs sound legitimate and safe because they're used in
> Indian
> > ceremony, but it's well documented that American Indian reservations are
> hotbeds
> > of drug and alcohol abuse.
> >
> RICK:
> You've got to be kidding, right? I feel certain in saying that anyone
> interested in philosophy, who has read LILA and even approaches
> understanding the MoQ is quite capable of thinking for themselves, no matter
> how young they might be (let's keep in mind that we aren't likely going to
> get "children" in this forum because most (if not all) children will be too
> young to read and understand the books). Nobody is going out and getting
> addicted to peyote (or acid, or shrooms, or mescaline) just because David B
> might have said so (which I don't believe he did).
I agree there's no children here but I could see smart high school and college
students reading and understanding this book, and it's at this age that folks
are exploring all kinds of new ideas and can be readily influenced by peers and
respected persons. David B is clearly a leader in this forum and I believe many
people look to him for understanding and guidance. If someone else more
peripherally involved in the forum had said it I probably would not have
bothered to respond.
> And that part about Indian reservations being "hotbeds" of drug and alcohol
> abuse (where do you live Glenn?) is patently absurd...
Read Cory's very thoughtful post. He thinks "hotbeds" is too strong, but based
on his depictions it's close.
> are you suggesting
> that Indians have high rates of drug and alcohol abuse because of the
> religious use of peyote???
Yes, but not entirely. Cory hits on other important reasons - to mask or quiet
the inner rage caused by the white man's oppression, and obviously the poverty.
But yes, I think not just the condoned but sanctioned use of a drug in the
mainstream ceremonies of a culture will have a similar effect on recreational
use. And we can see it has branched out to other drugs, especially alcohol.
> They've been doing it for thousands of years...
According to Lila, peyote was introduced from Mexico in the last century.
> long before alcohol was introduced by the white man, long before our
> "narcotics" were introduced. One thing has NOTHING to do with the other.
You ought to be very sure of yourself before you make blanket statements like
this. For some reason white man's fire-water is a big problem for American
Indians. Rates of alcoholism per capita among American Indians is much higher
than in white America. There are even accounts of this abuse before they were
put on reservations. Draw your own conclusions.
> What you propose here is the stifling of David B's intellectual statements
> in favor some moot social concern---- according to our own system, your
> methods are immoral (especially given the forum in which they are
> introduced).
I'm sure David B. is not going to let anyone stifle him.
You're right, what I said *is* immoral according to the MOQ if my statement is a
social concern (moot or not) and David B's was intellectual. But you've got it
the wrong way round. Not only is David B. espousing a popular claim of the "drug
culture", a thriving low-quality social movement, but all he's really talking
about is biological quality: a big, humungus, physical high. I keep reading his
paragraph over and over and I don't see anything vaguely intellectual about it.
*My* concern has no social strings attached. I do not wish to change any laws
and I did not blind-carbon-copy my email to any elected official. I promise.
Mine was purely in the interest of the intellectual well-being of the intellects
of this forum. I mean, I wouldn't want any important ideas to die along with its
people. Gee Rick (Glennn says with tongue firmly planted in cheek), I don't see
how you came to *your* conclusion. As I see it, I won not by one level but two!
I wish people would start realizing this morality-through-the-levels stuff is
pure disaster, especially when applied between the social and intellectual
levels.
And no, Rick, I'm not telling you where I live.
Regards,
Rigelll (thanks Corey)
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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