DMB, Cory and all...
Firstly I want to thank David B. for this topic. The facts are that the
posts are many and interesting. There has been a little detour about
drugs and mysticism, so I thank Diana for remembering us the topic.
But please let me tell something again to David and Cory, before introducing
a new theme.
David
I just want to say that In part I've been one of the firsts criticizing you
for your "peyotical MOQ". I think it's clear I criticized you
basing my arguments on the text, and not on some personal moral prejudice.
But when you accused me supposing some prejudice, you appeared to many as a
paladin of drug use. It has been a bad move.
( Please note I've been always sure you've never EVEN SEEN peyote!)
Our points of view are not very different, IMO.
> I think Pirsig put the teepee scene at the front of the book because of
its
> importance! If we disagree on this matter now, in the first three
chapters,
> then we always will. I'll show that these same issues are carried all the
> way through the book, even to the last pages of Lila.
I'm also convinced that mysticism IS one of the main themes in the book. And
that
chapter 2 sounds completely rational and not mystic and clashes chapter 3
just like SQ clashes DQ.
I briefly summarize my opinion:
1) We need a solid static intellectual base (chapter 2) to face DQ without
risks.
2) We must search for DQ in everyday life among everyday people
(Dusenberry).
3) "To experience the Dynamic, the static intellectual patterns must be hung
up" (Erik Wennberg, 10 march) and create an empty space in our
minds.
4) Peyote is a drug with a great function when used in that kind
of ceremonies. The WHOLE ceremony preconditioned the "crystal seed" of MOQ,
but
Phaedrus' mind was already "saturated" by his cultural attitude (attention
to people and no prejudices on different cultures) and by hundreds of myths
(cowboys movies, Eastern philosophy, American sense of freedom ... ) so that
seed has been possible.
5) The novel is the intellectual result of the application of a static
method to that dynamic mystic experience. Dynamic experiences need Static
patterns. Mysticism needs Intellectual patterns.
I think this is a judicious position. I hope you agree, even if it's not
necessary.
Cory.
>The intent of the peyote ceremony is to open up the doors of
>perception; a dynamic expansion of the static intellect. The intent of the
>barroom is forgetfulness; a closing of the doors of perception and a
regress
>into biological patterns. Remember Phaedrus's foggy memory the morning
>after.
IMHO the problem of barroom and alcohol use is that a lot of people have
lost the ceremonial aspect of alcohol. Wine (or beer) always had the
function to facilitate the "convivial" (Latin: live together). It's an
important ingredient in dinners with friends, as helps you to abandon a lot
of social inhibition and increases the conversation. But when you drink
alone in a barroom a "drop" of whisky you abandon at all the ceremonial
and you are risking to fall in alcoholism.
So I can't compare the Peyote ceremony with barroom: outside of ceremonies
the use of Peyote (or it's synthetic equivalent, LSD) is stupid, useless and
dangerous. Just like it's stupid useless and dangerous the use of alcohol
without a solid background of western static convivial ceremonies.
=================================================
I want briefly introduce a comment on chapter two.
"all he had to do was just hold up two slips and ask, "Which comes first?".
This was easy..."
WHICH COMES FIRST? This is the beginning of all the technique. He assumes
TIME as a tenet. His metaphysics is based on the assumption that everything
is a "quality EVENT" (ZAMM) and, as event, must have a time in which it
happens.
This introduces a question. For the moment I think this question must be
without answer. But if we go on with this slow reading, when we will begin
to talk about patterns and levels and platypi, we will have to search for an
answer.
WHAT IS TIME?
Marco.
p.s.
I've something to say about the slow reading rules. I agree with David and
Diana that
we must stay on the first three chapters, but it makes sense only if we will
go on with this slow reading. I go on thinking we must create a different
space for this project, or if we all agree, suspend monthly votes along one
year and use MF space for all the project; being sure to pursue the project
until the end.
For example I would like to answer Glenn's,
> I wish people would start realizing this morality-through-the-levels stuff
is
> pure disaster, especially when applied between the social and intellectual
> levels.
but this argument is inherent next chapters, and I wait.
Bye.
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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