MF'r all,
Since I suggested this thread I'll attempt a wrap-up even though it will undoubtedly miss points
some will feel are essential.
All agree that the conflict [between European and Indian values] was Pirsig's jumping off point
into, " Phaedrus' studies [of the] conflict between FREEDOM and order." And that study continues
examples of both to the end of Lila when Phaedrus three pages from the end says: " Ahhhh!"
He threw out his arms." FREE !"
We disagree, however, on his claims as to just how European and Indian values melded into American
values of freedom and order with the majority feeling he overstated the Indian case. But this issue
is not central to his argument, for as his studies evolve the combination of the "brujo" event
coupled with "Sidis" event shifts his focus and the ZaMM " inquiry into quality" resurfaces, is
expanded to include an "inquiry into morals", and shortly after the Metaphysics of Quality emerges
.
What can confuse is the rhetorical presentation of the argument which introduces theMoQ on page 27
in the "here and now" present of the boat trip and then a great deal of the rest of the book is
spent showing how, when, and why it developed as it did.
Bo put it this way:
> Freedom (vs order) was P's initial motive when he planned to write
> the Indian anthropological book, but as the MOQ wasn't invented
> yet the DQ/SQ dichotomy has no bearing on that stage. Later
> when he despaired on that task and took up the metaphysical
> challenge again, freedom became the essence of the dynamic half
> of his dynamic/static dualism.
Which is summed up in this RMP quote:
"Dynamic quality, the Quality of FREEDOM, creates this world in which we live" Lila-pp 121
But Dynamic quality , according to Pirsig, is undefinable which in the end, under the MoQ, leaves
freedom also undefinable. So as Diana and Horse quickly pointed out in their early posts what we
often think of as "freedom" in essense are "rules of order", static patterns, or as Pirsig put i
t
"When they call it FREEDOM, that's not right. "FREEDOM"doesn't mean anything. [this type of ]
FREEDOM'S just an escape from something negative." p220
This seems to throw us into Plato's "paradox of freedom" or as Karl Popper argues in "The Paradoxe
s
of Sovereignty" we are lead to the conclusion that " all theories of sovereignty [social and
particularly political orders] are paradoxical" But the question still remains: How does one
establish, maintain, promote any order which maximizes freedom? Based on the premise:
"But to the extent that one follow Dynamic Quality which is undefinable, one's behavior is FREE." p
156
Or alternatively John Doherty's description:
>It's not Freedom from any one thing. It's simply letting your soul express it's genuine destiny.
While embracing the undefined, ineffable, yes mystic nature of Dynamic Quality and experience: the
starting point must also be to acknowledge:
"Although Dynamic quality, the Quality of FREEDOM, creates this world in which we live, these
patterns of static quality, the quality of ORDER, preserve our world. Neither static or Dynamic
Quality can survive without the other." Lila-pp 121
And maybe as Popper suggests:
"The theory I have in mind is one which does not proceed, as it were, from the doctrine of the
intrinsic goodness or righteousness of majority rule, but rather from the baseness of tyranny; or
more precesely, it rests upon the decision, or upon the adoption of the proposal, to avoid and
resist tyranny."
Now what the MoQ does is expand the nature of order and freedom to cover not just the social,
political, and intellectual arenas but to the whole of existence and experience. So possibly an
approach that is feasible is to focus as the song says "on eliminating the negatives" the tyranny,
from all our static patterns thus helping goodness prevail.
3WD
PS [Bo] The man allegedly was a Summer called Avram , or in latter day Christian lingo- Abraham.
Father of the original Jews, and over time Christians, and Muslims. But that whole post is likely
just a sketch of ancient static patterns or orders. Interesting, but to a large degree relevant on
ly
from tracing where we've been and possibily, to some limited degree, in suggesting where we're are
going .
------- End of forwarded message -------
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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