Dear foci (is there a plural out there ?),
> I think I'll start disputing here. At least my understanding
> of Q isn't only mystical.
Of course no understandig can be entirely mystical. The problem is that you
can't understand the first premise of a system while standing in/on an other
system, to fully understand the first premise you must let go the patterns
of the system you came from (SOM most likely). It is the contradictory state
of thinking without patterns that I would call mystical. You can close in to
MOQ from within SOM following the dialectic method. But the full
consequences of any first premise are hard to see as long as you are ruled
(without knowing it) by an other first premise.
One of the most striking descriptions of Quality for me was the description
of the 'dharma light'. It is this experience I think of when talking about
the mystical understanding of Quality. If I never heard of the MOQ I might
call this 'dharma light' God or Boedha or Krisna - maybe I would be
conversed to some "mystical" religion.
> Ehh, no Jaap, that's not the DQ/SQ split in my book. SQ doesn't become
static
> just because it already happened. Time itself is a static pattern and that
> would mean that time would be a prerequisite for its own existence.
You're right, as long as you understand time as a fysical 'dimension' it's a
more or less static pattern of the inorganic level. It's also true that
static patterns, especially of the inorganic kind, have proven to be very
stable through time. This is why I also try to separate SQ and DQ as 'the
already experienced Quality' and 'the not yet experienced Quality'. You can
say that we have already experienced that a certain fysic pattern is
reasonable stable through time, but an the other hand we can't predict
what's going to happen tomorrow -and we never will be able to do so- due to
'the unexperienced'. I think that the very essence of 'future time' is that
it is unexperienced, so there is a certain relation between the flow of
Quality (I bugged some of you with that concept about a year ago) and the
flow of time. But I recognize that static patterns have a certain inertia
through time, or better: it is the fact that they have inertia that makes
them static.
> Static quality is that stuff of reality, (actually very peculiar when you
> think about it), which makes that stone behave exactly the same over and
over
> again.
>
> Dynamic quality is that other stuff of the world that makes the stone fall
> that tiny bit more slowly once in a while, or a teeny weeny mm to the left
> of where it usually falls.
Maybe you can distinct two aspects of time: time as a fysical parameter (the
kind of time you need for the equatation describing the movement of a
falling stone), and time as experienced by the observer when he observes
that each falling stone falls the same way. Of course in both situations it
is the same time but "experienced" on separate levels, the first time is the
time as "experienced" by the stone, the second as experienced by the
observer; it is only the observer who relates the two falling stones to each
other.
On the other hand there can also be 'unexperienced things' in past time. The
cat in the box (famous example of -fysical- undetermibility) can already
have died a long time ago, but as long it is undetermined it can have a
dynamic influence. For instance some never-cleared-up historical event may
have a far more dynamic influence on literature than a historical event
fully explained by historicans. Again it is the observers time that counts,
the event becomes static the moment the observer gets to know what happened.
A last word after obscuring things this far: I agree to anyone who states
that the Dynamic character of Quality goes beyond such fysical parameter as
time, but the human experience is so strongly related to time that the idea
of DQ overlaps that of futere time.
Jaap
(P.S. DQ might well be a static pattern of some kind but the level is to
high for us to see so we can't predict it's behaviour.)
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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