Re: MF Discussion Topic for December 2003

Date: Tue Dec 30 2003 - 11:02:03 GMT

  • Next message: David MOREY: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for December 2003"

    David M. and Foci.

    28 Dec. You said:

    Bo prev:
    > NOTA BENE!! In the said example above intellects S/O value
    > (objectivity-over-subjectivity) is plain to see, so plain that I wonder
    > how anyone can avoid seeing it. Just as obvious is emotions as the
    > social "expression" and reason as intellect's, and in light of the
    > dependency issue one sees emotions' role as what underpins
    > reason. Why you consider this aspect of the MOQ as imperfect is
    > very strange.

    > DM: I agree that SOM, which implies only the distinction, generally
    > becomes the value "objectivity-over-subjectivity" but this is not
    > true of the great German idealist tradition that is the other way round and
    > has a great deal to say about reason and is more the concern of European
    > post-modernism than the "objectivity-over-subjectivity" that is really the
    > value of modern secular techno-scientific society.

    That the subject/object-METAPHYSICS has 2 - two - components
    an idealist and a materialist one I have harped on since God knows
    when, but the SOM removed of its metaphysical 'M' and given the
    role of MOQ's intellectual level ...means the VALUE of the S/O
    distinction. Neither the idealist nor the materialist is "right" any
    longer because the rightness is taken over by the MOQ.

    > I think that your formual
    > intellect=SOM I find very odd when I have been educated mainly in the German idealist
    > tradition in the humanities

    I see your point perfectly and at the start of my SOL "campaign" -
    when the formula was "intellect=SOM" - it could look as if I had
    overlooked the idealist half, but with the "intellect=the value of the
    S/O distinction" form it aught to be crystal clear.

    > but with dualism turned materialist in the sciences. I
    > agrre very much with Pirsig with respect to science, but there is a big tradition in the
    > European humanities (also some US pragmatism) that is not based on the
    > "objectivity-over-subjectivity" value.

    I know, but please David: It's the subject/object dualism (here in
    the idealist/materialist form) that the MOQ says is WRONG ...and
    what it is supposed to replace with its own DQ/SQ dualism.
    Haven't you understood this elementary fact yet?

    > We have been happy in Europe to talk alot ion the humanties about the
    > subjective-experiencing-self over the objective-groundless-limited-sciences.

    Exactly. ;-)

    Wishing you all a Happy New year

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