RE: MF Discussion Topic for February 2004

From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Mon Feb 09 2004 - 11:33:28 GMT

  • Next message: David MOREY: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for February 2004"

    Focists.

    On 7 Feb 2004 at 17:05, David Buchanan wrote:

    > Ouch. My brain hurts. Is the question about the validity of
    > alternative versions of the MOQ, is it about the MOQ itself, is it
    > about how we should discuss the MOQ or is it about SOLAQI? These are
    > all very different questions and so asking them all at once is
    > contradictory and incoherent. Even if Wim hadn't spun the question
    > beyond recognition, it would still be confusing.

    Let alone Wim's cryptic style, we all know that it is the Intellect
    again, and more specific my SOLAQI. It may be called a different
    "school" like the Copenhagen School of Quantum Theory, but
    there is only one QT, so I don't get this worry. If a "school" is no
    good it will die off. I had to laugh a little over Wim who
    accidentally started about his own definition of Intellect ...then
    caught himself and added that he believed it was in accordance
    with Pirsig. And that's my point: the SOL is in accordance with
    Pirsig's work ...except some annotations in LC, but ZMM and
    LILA are his legacy.

    > I mean, its hard to imagine how to answer the question. If I
    > understand it, the question DOES NOT ask if it is appropriate to
    > create our own metaphysical system. (Of course it is.) It asks if it
    > is appropriate to plagarize and distort Pirsig's MOQ.

    This is a most strange attitude. If a theory - and especially a
    theory of everything - is supposed to be RATIONAL it can't be
    regarded like some holy scripture ...and us the Talibans. Intellect
    has made it into existence and it's rationality must prevail against
    this effort to make SOM a bad intellectual pattern. DMB who isn't
    very happy with Matthew K's postmodernism should be the first to
    see the danger of introducing the MOQ as some "Born-Again
    Sophism" inside intellect, degrading the SOM. MOQ is better
    ...let there be no doubt about that ...to the degree of not fitting
    inside intellect.

    > I can't quite
    > put my finger on it, but get a feeling that something is very, very
    > wrong here. There is something morally outrageous about the very
    > notion. I mean, has anyone ever heard of Frankenstien's theory of
    > relativity? No, because that would be cheating Einstien.

    It's not me speaking of any BoMOQ, I am the greatest Pirsig
    admirer and do not have the least wish to modify it, the thing is
    that I see the SOL in Pirsig's work.

    > It would be
    > intellectually dishonest. It would be theft and a lie. Its Einstein's
    > theory wether we like it or not. Is it appropriate for a person to
    > create their own theory in physics? Of course it is. But if one calls
    > it the theory of relativity, no one can be blamed for thinking such a
    > name refers to Einstein's ideas.

    As said the MOQ is Pirsig's and is there a greater honor paid to a
    theory than being questioned, even attacked and "debugged"?
    There are plenty sects that brainwash people, but Pirsig definitely
    don't want his MOQ to be some "Scientology Church". I recall
    him saying that the letter to Paul was just another opinion.

    > And if one compounds this crime by
    > inventing new definitions for Einstien's key concepts and terms,...
    > Its just wrong on so many levels. And so it is with Pirsig's MOQ. I
    > believe such a practice is way past being unhelpful and enters the
    > realm of intellectual vandalism.

    DMB may feel good by all this noble "defending Pirsig" stuff, but
    would the SOL last this long against all efforts to refute it if not
    deeply ingrained in the MOQ?
     
    > As you may have detected, dear reader, this is a sore spot for me. As
    > I see it, the question is basically about getting permission to smash
    > Pirsig's work until if fits our preconcieved notions. I think this is
    > some kind of minor evil.

    I just wonder what people see as its central "value" if taking
    intellect down a peg means "smashing" the MOQ. I fear that the
    answer is that intellect is their holy grail ...consciousness, MIND,
    where everything resides, and DYNAMIC most of all. This is
    somish to the core and what I have protested always. Intellect is
    the highest static value, yet static with a limited capacity and as
    blind to any movement above itself as the rest of the levels.

    IMO
    Bo

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/
    MF Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_focus follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/mf/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Feb 09 2004 - 14:32:29 GMT