Re: MF Money

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue Jun 08 2004 - 05:55:44 BST

  • Next message: Matt poot: "Re: MF Money"

    Dear all,

    Money measures status. Not the amount you have but the speed with which you
    'earn' it.
    Society's wealth (symbol of its status) is measured by national income, the
    amount of money changing hands in a year.

    Societies can associate status with other symbols: living more strictly
    according to religious rules, spending money/goods on (potential) relations
    (potlach economy), number of relatives/wives/(male) children. These only be
    dominant in small, isolated societies, because global society as a whole
    needs money/income to hold it together. Without enough income (or even
    income growth) global society (and national parts of it) are unable to
    distribute the means of living (produced to a large extent collectively)
    without conflict. Conflict leads to competitive hoarding of (means of) power
    to extort a larger part of the pie from one's fellow members of (global)
    society. Hoarding means of power uses productive capacity that then cannot
    be used to produce means of meeting other needs and tempts people/nations to
    use them to take (rather than 'earn') a bigger part of the national/global
    pie by force. National and global income grows to the extent that a society
    manages to limit this appropriation of wealth by force and stimulates
    appropriation by exchange: offering attractive labour/services/goods to
    others in order to get back what you want in exchange. For higher (relative)
    income and status you then need unequal exchange. This is a
    self-re-inforcing mechanism, as higher status increases the value in other
    people's perception of what you have to offer. It creates the
    'Mathew-effect' (Mt 13.12 - "For to him who has will more be given, and he
    will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be
    taken away.")

    Understanding (i.e. being able to represent symbolically) this habitual
    pattern of value makes it impossible for me to make an ordinary career. I
    have a relatively strong drive (a personal habitual pattern of value) to
    follow alternative roads (other than by means of accumulating status).

    An exchange of views in an earlier discussion on the MD-list is also
    relevant here:
    I wrote 23 Sep 2001 23:51:10 +0200:
    'Unlike Sam I think luck and merit are only marginally involved.
    It is not the virtue of me and my contemporaries that has created
    Dutch infrastructure that values (not causes) Dutch wealth. Being
    the main drain of Western Europe (the delta of a couple of big
    rivers) helped to create a big transport industry, but the same
    could have been true of say Egypt or Irak and was true at earlier
    points in history... Western Europe's "geographical and
    ecological quirks" were of such marginal importance, that the
    center of gravity of fortune has been moving over the earth quite
    a bit during those past 4000 years: Egypt, Irak, Greece, Italy
    (Roman empire), Constantinopel (Byzantium), Northern Italy,
    Spain, the Netherlands, England, the USA ... (I am not trying to
    be precise and there were of course more centers of gravity at
    most points in history. From before the Roman empire until the
    end of "our" Middle Ages China may have been the most wealthy and
    civilized part of the world.)
    Every center of gravity of fortune in history suppressed economic
    advancement in a wide circle around itself by attracting greedy people
    and/or their investments and by creating political structures defending
    their interests. Today the circle encloses the whole globe. Flocking
    together created economies of scale and relatively cheaper infrastructure
    (infrastructure in a broad sense: including at the beginning of recorded
    history the creation of written language itself). Exploitation has always
    been first and foremost something between local/regional privileged and
    underprivileged primarily facilitated by ideological legitimization (systems
    of ideas of the privileged dominating those of the underprivileged) and only
    secondary by brute force. International exploitation is therefore less a
    matter of "stealing" and more a matter of "receiving" (buying something
    knowing it has been stolen). You [Roger Parker] implicitly acknowledge this
    when you write to Squonk 18/9 21:49 -0400: "I steal oil? No, I buy oil.
    Saudis sell oil. ... If you have problems with exploitation by totalitarian
    Saudis of their people, then say so." And of course international
    exploitation is offering prices for what you buy and asking prices for what
    you produce that imply hugely different wage levels of the producers and
    getting away with that because of the oligopolistic structure of markets,
    home market protection, protection against spreading of technology etc. In
    the end the unfavorable terms of exchange for underprivileged countries are
    due to status differences. One cannot really blame Western countries that
    our way of life and our products have more status than those produced
    elsewhere, but we can be blamed that we don't share our unmerited wealth.
    Who decides what is equal? That is the result of a struggle
    between systems of ideas... for instance on this list.

    Those "values of allowing people to have the freedom and
    creativity to pursue their own interests", which you see as the
    root and legitimization of Western wealth, may rather be the
    result of the flocking together of greedy and resourceful people
    from everywhere.'

    Sam replied 24 Sep 2001 09:57:34 +0100:
    'This is an interesting point, from an angle I hadn't appreciated before.
    Are you saying that valuing wealth is not a human universal? By that I don't
    mean the idolatry of wealth, which excludes other values, but the importance
    given to, eg an abundant food supply and clean water? Perhaps I'm conflating
    two different things here, the wealth and what that wealth can provide, but
    I would argue that all human societies place value on wealth *for what it
    can provide* - and that therefore a system which fosters that will generally
    be preferred by a majority of the human race. More fundamentally, the US
    system doesn't preclude the pursuit of goals other than wealth - in fact it
    allows more scope for alternative goals. Historically the pioneers in the US
    and the puritan settlers (amongst others) were attracted because it allowed
    for a different way of life compared to the old world (presumably a more
    just and God-directed society).'

    In the present context I would like to add:
    Valuing money and material wealth is indeed not a human universal. All human
    societies place value on wealth for meeting their survival needs, but our
    present global society places much more value on it than can be accounted
    for by survival needs. Nathan asked: 'why do those you have more than enough
    still strive for more?' Because it is not the amount you have that gives
    status, but the speed with which you add to that amount (without taking into
    account to what extent you spend/deplete it). The pursuit of (any) goals is
    not precluded by the habit to hoard wealth/status, but the scope for it IS
    limited, if only because of the psychological and social need to justify
    this habitual behaviour as rational: telling ourselves that we really need
    more when actually we don't. In a society in which you always have to do
    something in return for what you get in exchange (in principle...) pursuit
    of wealth reduces the scope for pursuit of other values.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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