MF Discussion Topic for February 2005

From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu Feb 10 2005 - 12:10:48 GMT

  • Next message: Wim Nusselder: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for February 2005"

    Hi everyone,

    My interest in posing this question is to try and find out what Pirsig means
    when he talks about 'feeling'. I am very unclear on this, and given my
    well-known suspicions about other aspects of the intellectual level, it has
    set some alarm bells ringing. So what I want to do is set out my list of
    questions. But first, the fuller context for the Pirsig quote (to avoid HTML
    Pirsig's words are in double square brackets):

    When, therefore, the Absolute is described as sentient experience, this term
    is really being used analogically. [[The MOQ uses it literally.]] 'Feeling,
    as we have seen, supplies us with a positive idea of nonrelational unity.
    [[In the MOQ feeling corresponds to biological quality.]]

    OK, my questions:

    A: Is feeling "sensation" - and if so, is it therefore the empirical ground
    for the MoQ? My impression is that it is. In support of that, see this quote
    from the annotations:

    "inasmuch as thought can recognize the 'contradictions' which emerge when
    reality is conceived as a Many, as a multiplicity of related things, it can
    see that the world of common sense and of science is appearance. And if we
    ask, 'Appearance of what?', reference to the basic experience of a felt
    totality enables us to have some inkling at any rate of what the Absolute,
    ultimate reality, must be. We cannot attain a clear vision of it. To do so,
    we should have to be the comprehensive unified experience which constitutes
    the Absolute. We should have to get outside our own skins, so to speak. But
    we can have a limited knowledge of the Absolute by conceiving it on an
    analogy with the basic sentient experience which underlies the emergence of
    distinctions between subject and object and between different objects. In
    this sense the experience in question can be regarded as an obscure, virtual
    knowledge of reality which is the 'presupposition' of metaphysics and which
    the metaphysician tries to recapture at a higher level. [[This is really an
    excellent statement of the MOQ position.]]

    B: If feeling is sensation in this way, and feeling is biological quality,
    does this skew the MoQ, ie does it make the biological level foundational??

    C: In the context of the 19th Century Idealism which Copleston is
    discussing, how is "feeling" related to the Romantic movement's conceptions,
    especially Schleiermacher's understanding of it as the pre-rational
    'immediate self-consciousness' and ground of religion. (I think that they
    are the same thing, and that there is the direct descent from this to
    Pirsig, but I accept that this is controversial. People might want to avoid
    this element for a while).

    D: How can we distinguish "feeling" from emotion? I have said before that I
    think that the field of 'emotion' is a blind-spot in the MoQ, and Pirsig
    often seems to have uncritically accepted an enlightenment bias against
    emotion. But it seems to me fairly well-established now that emotions are,
    at least in part, cognitive in character, so that enlightenment bias is
    unsustainable. If so, in what way are "feelings" - understood as biological
    Quality - to be distinguished from "emotions" - understood as, at least in
    part, a pattern which operates on the intellectual level?

    That's probably enough for now.

    Sam

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