Re: MF Discussion Topic for May 2005 - individual worth

From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Fri May 13 2005 - 08:40:17 BST

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MF Discussion Topic for May 2005 - individual worth"

    Hi all,

    A quick response to Mark who asked "Where, in LILA, do you see Socrates
    re-enthroned, where does Pirsig claim that "truth stands independently of
    social opinion?" . These two quotes from Lila are the source:

    "When the social climate changes from preposterous social restraint of all
    intellect to a relative abandonment of all social patterns, the result is a
    hurricane of social forces. That hurricane is the history of the twentieth
    century. There had been other comparable times, Phaedrus supposed. The day
    the first protozoans decided to get together to form a metazoan society. Or
    the day the first freak fish, or whatever-it-was, decided to leave the
    water. Or, within historical time, the day Socrates died to establish the
    independence of intellectual patterns from their social origins. Or the day
    Descartes decided to start with himself as an ultimate source of reality.
    These were days of evolutionary transformation. And like most days of
    transformation, no one at the time had any idea of what was being
    transformed." (beginning of chapter 22)

    "What the Metaphysics of Quality makes clear is that it is only social
    values and morals, particularly church values and morals, that science is
    unconcerned with. There are important historic reasons for this: The
    doctrine of scientific disconnection from social morals goes all the way
    back to the ancient Greek belief that thought is independent of society,
    that it stands alone, born without parents. Ancient Greeks such as Socrates
    and Pythagoras paved the way for the fundamental principle behind science:

    that truth stands independently of social opinion. It is to be determined by
    direct observation and experiment, not by hearsay. Religious authority
    always has attacked this principle as heresy. For its early believers, the
    idea of a science independent of society was a very dangerous notion to
    hold. People died for it. The defenders who fought to protect science from
    church control argued that science is not concerned with morals.
    Intellectuals would leave morals for the church to decide. But what the
    larger intellectual structure of the Metaphysics of Quality makes clear is
    that this political battle of science to free itself from domination by
    social moral codes was in fact a moral battle! It was the battle of a
    higher, intellectual level of evolution to keep itself from being devoured
    by a lower, social level of evolution." (chapter 24, about a page in).

    Regards
    Sam

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/
    MF Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_focus follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/mf/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat May 14 2005 - 07:32:59 BST