Jason Gaedtke (jgaedtke@gb.frontiernet.net)
Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:27:18 +0100
Diana,
Thank you for distilling our debate to the point where I was finally able to
understand the cause of our difficulty (I think). I believe our discord hinges
on different interpretations of one word: definition.
I can only speak for myself here, but when I use the word definition I am
referring to an intellectual pattern of values (as you describe), which
associates a term or symbol (1) to an complex and indescribable (directly)
mental state or (2) to other (already defined) terms in a way that gives the
original term meaning and usefulness.
In your illustrative example you demonstrated the fact that the word
"chocolate" is immediately associated with the taste sensation shared by anyone
who has ever enjoyed this tasty treat. You are quite right in declaring that,
although we know quite well what someone is referring to when she uses the term
chocolate, we cannot directly communicate the actual sensation (taste) of
chocolate. (I have seen similar examples that offered the visual perception of
color as the indescribable phenomena.)
In short, intellectual patterns of value (red, for example) are not the same as
biological patterns of value (the experience of SEEING red). In this sense,
you are correct that we cannot directly capture the essence of other levels
through our use of language at the intellectual level. This is also the point
that I tried to make early on in my initial response -- language has definite
limitations.
Nonetheless, this example does not address the central issue in question: can
the inorganic, biological and social value patterns be described (i.e.,
defined) using intellectual value patterns. My overwhelming responds to this
question (as you might guess ;) is YES! We simply have to realize that any
definitions offered involve symbols, not the actual phenomena being referenced.
One last example to try to illustrate my point... Modern medicine has made
great strides in exploring, understanding, communicating, and treating the
internal workings of the human psyche. Along the way, psychologists have
developed working definitions for many mental "illnesses." Consider, for
example, obsessive/compulsive disorder. Because the definition of this phase
is commonly understood among medical professionals, this "disorder" can be
identified and treated -- even by those who have not personally experienced the
disorder (biological pattern of value) themselves.
I hold that by joining our efforts and shared experiences this group can
produce a set of highly descriptive definitions which help to illustrate the
crucial characteristics shared among phenomena in each of the four major
levels.
Back to you...
Jason
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