glove (glove@indianvalley.com)
Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:34:33 +0100
hi Bodvar and Horse
Bodvar wrote:
Let's imagine that the Quality "movement" is a budding new moral
level, still indistinguishable from Intellect - "in its service" so
to say, but we sense a conflict. Intellect rejects the new morality
once it shows its true intentions, and such a show is when old Bo
says that "mind" (of S-O Metaphysics) isn't the holy grail, but a
mere Q-stage. Then Intellect panics: "Me,"thinking itself"
(Jonathan), not the container of everything (Donny) .. what is this
nonsense?!" No, Intellect will newer recognize a level above itself,
but DQ is able to; we are not solely of Intellect (after reading
LILA).
Bo, i sense a conflict here...something is not right. you say imagine
Quality is a new moral level, but how can it be new when everything is
Quality? if i might be so bold, i would say that the notion of the
Q-intellect is not quite right, but it is adequate for the time being to
allow agreement on how we normally view the universe. and now, what you see
as the emergence of a 5th level is actually an emergence of a Quality
outlook and a gradual letting go of the old subject/object value system now
in place.
HORSE WROTE:
"The floppy disk example also jogged my own IntPoV's. If the floppy
disk contained a virus then the disk is supporting a life form, even
though that life form is created by IntPoV's. This would appear to
be a level above the Intellectual level as the computer virus displays
nearly all of the values of organic life but its environmental starting
point is different to BioPoV's."
Horse, while i am not familar enough with computer virus' to say if they are
true life forms or not, it seems to me that you are looking at this question
from a subject/object type of thinking rather than a Quality PoV.
subject/object thinking uses a linear type of progression rather than an
all-space-filling type of progression used by Quality thinking. for me,
Quality thinking entails looking at the whole picture while still keeping in
mind the locality of the Quality Event.
looking at the problem from a Quality PoV, the computer virus is a Quality
Event which has arisen because it has taken advantage of high value
situations existing in the inorganic level of the computer disk. these
values have been organized by the next level, the biological layer from
which life arises, in such a way that the inorganic level are organized by
the biological level. any further discussion of the virus being 'alive' is
subject/object type thinking, in my opinion. since the virus is dynamically
static within the disk, it could be considered alive in the same way
electricity could be considered alive in a circuit board. its the inclusion
of Dynamic Quality which allows the virus to do what it does as itself, the
very same way DQ allows us to do what we do as ourselves.
in subject/object thinking, the inorganic layer and the biological layers
are objects, while the social and intellect layers are subjects. what we
sometimes forget is the 'between' that exists. my point of view is that the
'between' is morally of higher value than either subject or object, yet it
is so inconsequential that we tend to ignore it altogether, unless we change
our point of view to that of Quality.
'between' exists as moral conflicts in the MOQ and since we all tend to
think in subject/object terms to some extent, the moral conflicts that arise
can sometimes be difficult to put into a Quality context...but i would say
that the computer virus, like everything else, also is composed of the 4
static levels as well as Dynamic Quality, and it is this inclusion of the
Dynamic in the virus that makes it appear to fit no other level, until that
Dynamic Quality is realized to exist by forming Quality agreements with the
conceptual nature of reality. in other words, the 'between' of the computer
virus is more Dynamic than that of, say, this email, but it is not
indicative of a 5th level any more than the internet would be.
best wishes to all,
glove
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