From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Fri May 16 2003 - 13:33:32 BST
Hi Squonk
> The Metaphysics of Quality is a work of intellectual
> art. All universities
> should teach the MoQ IMHO. It may be the case that
> in doing so, many students
> find there is allot less to say and very much more
> to just sitting. They can
> then forget about the MoQ. How fashionable would
> that be?!
Yeah, try to put the MoQ to sleep, the new Zen method,
I like that.
> The Quality event may be seen
> as a coalescence in that
> tension dissipates and ease reigns? Horse and rider?
> Art requires that we
> loose ourselves. And if everything is art, then we
> become a barrier to its
> execution? What do you think?
I think you've turned the Quality event on its head,
see:
My interpretation is that the Quality event is the
differentiation of the undifferentiated - distinct
patterns emerge from the unpatterned
sq: I agree. But your question is whether the, 'View from within' is a
general assumption of the MoQ, which requires 'the Quality event.' Pirsig
never used that term, rather, he says, 'DQ is a stream of Quality events...'
A stream of Quality events (DQ) is not the same as the Quality event. DQ may
produce a 'view from within' which is a transient barrier to harmonious
being. In short, i don't think about the Quality event anymore, because there
are no subjects and objects for me anymore.
Your anthropocentric leaning may be the best way to pursue a MoQ. SODV
certainly gives that impression, but can we brake away from extension by
analogy?
Your interpretation (as I see it) is that the Quality
event is the coalescence of the differentiated -
distinct patterns merge in a new pattern
sq: The term, 'Quality event' is problematic. I rather wish Skutvik had not
chosen it for the title of his treatise. But he did, and now it is has gained
currency. If we attend to what Pirsig has said, then we discover that he did
not use the term. I may be making a dreadful mistake, but i simply don't
think of the Quality event anymore. I think about DQ, and how it points
towards the One.
You see our different perspectives? Now, a classic SOM
view may see this as a paradox, pick one or the other.
But I think both are right at the same time.
The Quality event is at once a coalescence and a
differentiation. If you pick one answer you lose the
insight of the other. Lila has Quality and Quality has
Lila. As Mr Herrigel lamented: 'Is "It" spiritual when
seen by the eyes of the body, and corporeal when seen
by the eyes of the spirit-or both or neither?'
sq: Yes, i see what you are saying. Returning to the One must be a
coalescence of sorts? That which is differentiated becomes undifferentiated.
However, that which is differentiated emerged from the undifferentiated.
> sq: I don't view DQ and SQ as a polarity.
Polarity as in known-unknown, particle-wave,
static-Dynamic. One completes the other. Not dichotomy
like subject-object or true-false.
sq: I get you. I think of polarity in terms of opposites and not
complimentarities, although poles may compliment.
> Many
> things may be said of SQ but
> nothing may be said of DQ.
Well, I see that DQ cannot be defined but it may be
described. In a way, all of SQ once described DQ?
sq: As i understand it, DQ is concept free. I don't know if all of SQ once
described DQ? DQ is a-temporal, so there are problems with that i feel?
> sq: This is giving me problems. I think the problem
> lies in my thinking that
> agency implies causation; Agents are causally
> related centres of action?
Perhaps agency is a loaded term. I was using it in the
sense that meant the opposite of causation in that it
represents the ability to exercise and act on a
preference without specific authority or permission.
But the point is that whilst it is easy for us to
grasp our own ability to make choices (free will v
determinism platypi notwithstanding), seeing this as a
universal and ubiquitous ability is a major departure
from classical causation but is a key assumption in
the MoQ. From the ability to make choices arises the
question of good and bad choices, or morality, good
choices are moral. Everything makes choices in the
MoQ. That's my point.
sq: Free will may be a matter of letting go of static patterns? In this
sense, letting go is rather like returning to the One - coalescence. Opening
up to DQ.
> sq: Can only say what i say, but certainly hope it
> helps? You inspire
> patience, and i hope for your patience also Paul.
> Maybe you have a better way
> of looking at all this than i do? That is a very
> exciting prospect. Thank
> you.
Likewise
Thanks
Paul
sq: Very stimulating stuff. If our views are complimentary, i should spend
some time on the flip side and get the complimentary view. Many thanks.
squonk
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