Ian, Geoff, David L, Marco et al
[Ian]
> Were I to take large amounts of LSD I could achieve a similar state to
> one of the more debilitating mental illnesses. Would you say that the
> state of being affected by LSD doesn't exist?
[3WD]
As I mentioned in another thread I am reading or now just finished with "The Holographic Universe"
by Micheal Talbot in which he reviews the potential of the holographic paradigm as a model for
reality as proposed by Bohm and Pribram.
[Talbot]
" The main architects of this idea ..University of London physicist David Bohm (1917-1992),... and
Karl Pribram, (1919- ) a neuophysiologist at Standford... Intriguingly, Bohm and Pribram arrived
at their conclusions independently and while working from two very different directions. Bohm became
convinced of the universe's holographic nature only after years of dissatisfaction with standard
theories' inability to explain all of the phenomena encountered in quantum physics. Pribram became
convinced because of the failure of standard theories of the brain to explain various
neurophysiological puzzles." HU p1-2
[3WD]
Bohm's theory in a nutshell is this: [Brackets are my relating of this to the MoQ]
[Talbot]
"One of Bohm's most startling assertions is that the tangible reality of our everyday lives is
really a kind of illusion, like a holographic image. Underlying it is a deeper order of existence,
[Dynamic Quality] a vast and more primary level of reality that gives birth [through quality events]
to all the objects and appearances of our physical world [Static Qualities] in much the same way
that a piece of holographic film gives birth to a hologram. Bohm calls this deeper level of reality
the 'implicate' (which means enfolded) order, [Dynamic Quality] and he refers to our own level of
existence as the 'explicate' or unfolded order. [Static Quality] He uses these terms because he sees
the manifestation of all forms of the universe as the result of countless enfoldings and unfoldings
[quality events] between these two orders."
"Most mind-boggling of all are Bohm's fully developed ideas about wholeness. Because everything in
the cosmos is made out of the seamles holographic fabric of the implicate order, he believes it is
meaningless to the universe as composed of "parts" as it is to view the different geysers in a
fountain as separate from the water of which they flow." .... " Einstein astounded the world when he
said that space and time are not separate entities, but are smoothly linked and part of a larger
space time continuum. Bohm take this idea a giant step further. He says the 'everything' in the
universe is part of a continuum." [Quality]
[3WD]
Two people who view this model as useful are psychiartrist Montogue Ullman of the Mainondes Medical
Center in Brookland and Stanislav Grof, chief of psychiatric research at the Maryland Psychiatric
Research Center. Ian's reference to LSD flipped my switch because Grof has over 50 years of
experience in investigating the clinical uses of it.
[Talbot]
" When Grof began his research, most scientists viewed the LSD experience as little more that a
stress reaction, the brain's way of responding to a noxious chemical. But when Grof studies the
records of his patient's experiences he did not find evidence of any recurring stress reaction..
Instead, there was a difinite continuity running thought each patient's sessions. 'Rather that being
unrelated and random, the experiential content seemed to represent a successive unfolding of deeper
and deeper levels of the unconscious," say Grof.... It quickly became clear that serial LSD sessions
were able to expedite the psychotherapeutic process and shorten the time necessary for the
treatments of many disorders."
[3WD]
In a section titled " Pschosis and the Implicate Order" Talbout says this about Ullman's thoughts:
[Talbot]
"Ullman believes that some aspects of psychosis can also be explained by the holographic idea. Both
Bohm and Pribram have noted that the experiences mystics have reported throughout the ages - such as
feelings of cosmic oneness with the universe, a sense of unity with all life, and so forth - sound
very much like descriptions of the implicate order. They suggest that perhaps mystics are somehow
able to peer beyond ordinary explicate reality and glimpse its deeper, more holographic qualities.
Ullman believes that psychotics are also able to experience certain aspects of the holographic level
of reality. But because they are unable to order [latch] their experiences rationally, these
glimpses are only tragic parodies of the ones reported by mystics."[my addition]
"For example, schizophrenics often report oceanic feelings of oneness with the universe, but in a
magic, delusional way. They describe feeling a loss of boundaries between themselves and others, a
belief that leads them to think their thoughs are no longer private...And instead of viewing people,
objects,and concepts as individual things, the often view them as members of larger and larger
subclasses, a tendency that seems to be a way of expressing the holographic quality of the reality
in which they find themselves."
[3WD]
So you see when Pirsig says;
" Both lunatics and mystics have FREED themselves from the conventional static intellectual patterns
of the culture." P373
science is hot on the trail, suggesting they BOTH maybe dipping out of the same bowl. But where one
sees fish, the other sees fowl.
Which for some reason reminded me of a lead in to a radio " superhero" character I heard years ago.
The piece always started with the human imitation of a chicken clucking.
PLUK, PLUUUUK, PLUK
He's Everywhere! He's Everywhere!
It's Chickenman!
I alway thought it was lunacy, but maybe, I just missed mysticism.
3WD
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