DMB, Bo, All
> So, 3WD, I think those who disagree with the MOQ's levels have made an epic
> blunder. Such disagreement contradicts the perennial philospophy, the
> saints, the sages and mountains of empirical evidence. Its foolish, to say
> the least.
3WD
I'm not sure where you are coming from here. As you have said Pirsig's
levels, Wilber's levels, and perennial philosophies levels are all very
similar, I agree. Hell, I seem to recall I even developed a diagram
which I sent to many members here (you may have even been one of them)
trying to illustrate this possible correspondence between P & W levels.
The only quibble I have with Pirsig's levels is your wacky
interpretation of them, especially where the boundaries between levels
lie. In particular what qualities rises to the level of "social" and
"intellect". Both Bo and you seem to want to severely limit both by
first saying, with Pirsig, that both are only human patterns of value.
And second you both would push what qualifies as intellectual patterns
to emerging sometime after the Greeks and limited only to such concepts
as "democracy" or "human rights." etc. Ancient mathematic, astrology,
calender making, writing, tool making, architecture, war making prior to
the Greeks were all sans intellect. If this is your positions it is a
misinterpretation of Pirsig, Wilber, and countless others. I just can't
see any sense or value in it.
If there is have a quibble between Pirsig's levels and those of the
perennial philosophies it is that Pirsig stopped short. In Wilber's
"Quantum Questions" he presents his simplest version of his "Great Nest"
levels diagram which lists levels thus: 1 matter-physics, 2
life-biology, 3 mind-psychology, 4 soul-theology, 5 spirit-mysticism.
Pirsig's levels cover only the first three, no matter how you wish to
redivide parts of 2 and/or 3 into (social)/(intellect). Anything above
these ,within the MoQ, is within the mystical, undefined, realm of DQ.
In explaining his diagram Wilbur says the level name or "domain", such a
matter, also can be related to the experiencial "method", or one of the
empirical pursuits used to explore that level. Cast your eyes on level 4
"soul". The "method" Wilber claims that explores "soul" is "theology".
Within what level does this pursuit lie in the MoQ ? And if it is not
the intellect, please explain how a lower level pursuit bypasses the
intellect on the way to study the higher?
Or if it is the intellect, then when do you think "theology" first evolved?
3WD
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