In a message dated 7/3/02 5:09:54 AM GMT Daylight Time,
jonathan.marder@newmail.net writes:
> However, people miss the point that the distinction between objectivity and
> and subjectivity is largely derived from empiricism.
The distinction you mention is largely derived from culture.
"While the MoQ (as outlined in ZAMM and Lila) clearly shows the utility and
limits of SO thought, it does not offer a clear alternative (the
multiplicity of contradictory posts is evidence of this)."
Yes, it does.
Subjects and Objects may be reclassified as patterns of value.
Causation may be replaced by, 'B values precondition A.'
The value classification derived from MOQ has greater empirical authority and
emphasises the selection process of an open mind to Dynamic quality.
"On the other hand, many of us (myself included) consider intellect to
include every
type of pattern. The molecules, atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons and
quarks are all intellectual constructs, inorganic patterns that depict
(communicate) a certain facet of reality."
These patterns you mention are merely patterns.
They are Intellectual patterns.
They don't actually exist except as postulations.
The MOQ postulates a reclassification derived from a metaphysics of quality.
You consistently fail to engage in the project and therefore fall into a
value trap initially generated by subject/object thinking.
"I think that Pirsig caused this problem by
making an intellectual LEVEL a part of his MoQ. In this, he inherited the
same problem that exists in Mind vs. Matter metaphysics, i.e. how mind
thinks about itself."
A LEVEL is a static Intellectual pattern.
Its dead.
Dead as a rusty nail.
Its not going anywhere and its not doing anything.
You are confusing, once again, patterns with the Dynamic process of cutting
edge reality.
The patterns are real only in the sense that we keep them alive.
If we forget about them, they die.
To postulate an Intellectual level is to postulate a growing jungle of
patterns extruded from Quality as we may wish to call it?
That is quite legitimate and makes a great deal of sense to me.
"Actually, Pirsig doesn't exactly say that these are intellectual patterns.
He says that they are "moral codes that established the supremacy of the
intellectual order over the social order" (Lila, Ch. 13). This doesn't tell
us anything about what the intellectual level actually is."
......and on it goes, on and on, and on and on.
Its enough to make you want to chew your own foot off.
Squonk.
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