Gary and everyone interested in comparing Pirsig to Wilber:
I think you've mixed things up pretty badly. For starters you've put
Wilber's heterotrophic ecosystems into Pirsig's inorganic level. Clearly,
any kind of ecosystem is biological and belongs at the organic level. Also,
the four quadrants represent the four aspects of a holon, which you seem to
grasp elsewhere. But the way you've put different numbers together betrays
that idea. In the inorganic level, for example, there is only three fourths
of holon number two and one fourth of holon numbers 3 and 4. We can't chop
holons up like that. It defies the definition of holon. The same chopping
occurs in the next levels, only it gets increasingly worse as you go up
through the levels. The social level, as you paint it here, lacks
individuality entirely and the intellectual level has no collective or
exterior dimensions at all. This just isn't how it works. Everything, that
is to say EVERY THING, has all four dimensions. That's what the word "holon"
means. Its really pretty simple. Just match up the numbers in each quadrant.
In fact you can play a little game of connect the dots on Wilbers diagram so
that you have a series of increasingly larger squares or spheres.
Naturally, I think this mistake has totally ruined your attempt to compare
Pirsig and Wilber. I won't go into it very much yet, not until you get what
I'm saying about the necessity to include all four aspects of any given
holon. But briefly, I think that Wilber's levels fit pretty easily into the
MOQ's levels. Its just that Wilber has more grades. For example, I think
Wilbers archaic, magic and mythical all fit into Pirsig's 3rd level. And all
four aspects, not just the collective interior quadrant, have to be included
in that same 3rd level. They're stages within that level. Likewise there are
several stages within the 4th level. And beyond that Wilber has spiritual
levels that all fit into Pirsig code of art idea, where DQ itself becomes a
real factor in one's outlook and being.
Its not easy to talk about this without charts and stuff. I hope it makes
sense. In any case, Gary's comparison is below. That's it from me. Thanks
for your time,
DMB
1ST LEVEL INORGANIC:
Ext Ind
1.Atoms
2.Molecules
Int Ind
1. Prehension
2.Irritability
Ext Col
1. Galaxies
2. Planets
3. Gaia Systems
4.heterotrophic ecosystems
Int Col
1. Physical
2ND LEVEL ORGANIC
Ext Ind
3. prokaryotes
4.eukaryotes
5.neuronal organisms
6.neural cord
7.reptilian brain stem
8.limbic brain stem
9. neocortex (triune brain)
10. complex neocortex
Int-Ind
2.Irritability
3.sensation
4. perception
5. impulse
Int-Col
2. pleromatic
3.protoplasmic
4. vegetative
5.locomotive
Ext-Col
5. societies with division of labor [That is if animals have division of
labor?]
3RD LEVEL SOCIAL
Int-Col
7. Uroboric culture
8.Typhonic culture
9.Archaic culture
10.Magic culture
11. Mythic culture
12.Rational culture
13. Centauric culture [Unifying of mind & body? A culture based on MOQ?]
Ext-Col
5. societies with division of labor
6.groups/families
7.tribes
8.tribal/village
9. early state/empire
10. nation/state
11.planetary
4TH LEVEL INTELECT
Int-Ind
5. sensation
6. perception
7.impulse
8. emotion
9. symbols
10. concepts
11. concrete operational thinking
12 formal operational thinking
13. vision-logic
Whew, done. That's how Wilber would be broken up into Pirsig's 4 levels.
At least I think I've got it right.
Gary
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