Re: MD inadvertently correct

From: elliot hallmark (onoffononoffon@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 12 2002 - 23:55:14 BST


you guys knew id butt in with something,

Firstly, no one seriously doubts the power of capitalism as a dynamic
economic system. it sets people up in parallel rather than in a series,
making people more effective and efficent while allowing greater freedom to
each individual (in comparison to leninism and the feudal system). it is
better than other options which have been avaiable, this is why it is in use
(there is no conspiricy to keep a less effective system going when a better
one could actually be in place).

Marxism is antiquated because, when marx was writing, there was no social
security, no state intervention, subsidization, etc. capitalism rteally WAS
failing and both marxism and state capitalism were possibilities (only no
one predicted state capitalism). capitalism won because it was more dynamic
(like why life is carbon based rather than sodium). These consessions must
be made if were gunna talk about the future: the past has been what it has
been for good reasons, not because of some mass conspiracy to keep human
beings in suffering.

But now, now we have state capitalism and going to socialism as it is
understood today would be de-evolution. BUT, keeping capitalism without
constant critical negation of its weakest points is ceasing evolution. Yes,
all the capitalists are great at pointing out the flaws of socialist theory,
but why do you shy away from negating capitalism as well?

This system, created of reason (to paraphrase Marcuse), is IRRATIONAL,
please dont try to cover that up inorder to save the current system (you do
us all a great disservice): Things are produced before there is a demand
and then demand is created, products are surrounded with ugly, wasteful
wrapping to cover up the lack of true esthetics held by the product,
craftsmen subordinate their spontinaity (perception of Quality) to
beauracracy, oh yea, beauracracy in general exsists which is a series rather
than parallel organization, WE DEAL WITH OUR LEADERS THROUGH AUTOMATED PHONE
SERVICES AND FORM LETTERS! The list goes on and on and on and on, all one
has to do is open up their eyes for a second. Yes, all these things are
perfectly nessicary and rational for the current system to function (thats
very obvious, dont pretend like i dont see that), but that is precisely the
problem! waste, inefficeny, absurdity, irrationality and lack of compassion
are built directly INTO the system.

Yes, capitalism is much better than maoism, and the vangard party is an
atrocious idea (one must actually throw out the ideals of marxism to create
it). NO ONE SEIOUSLY DOUBTS THIS (if you do, well, your living in a world
that isnt the real one). It is precisely the brutality of capitalism which
makes it better than socialism (you dont have a nessicary skill, you WILL
starve, so figure one out and dont be lazy), but is there really nothing
else? does evolution stop right here, never to trancend capitalism? do we
wait for someone else to formulate the new possibilities, denying even their
possible exsistance? what we have here, the inability to negate capitalism
because "its more dynamic than socialism (and less cruel than maoism or
facism)" is what wilber calls the mythic rational. this is why those who
support NOT MARXISM but the next stage of social organization sound like
they consider themselves more evolved (because it requires more evolution!
if you stop evolving and just accept whats given, you deny part of life, you
accept a little bit of the static pattern of death). this stage is not
marxism because the world has changed to much for that, that stage is over,
but we call it marxism or socialism because it is less brutal than the
current system, and the new system has that in commmon with socialism.

I've suggested it before and i will again now: read the frankfurt school
(although its very tough reading), the essay "some implications of modern
technology" or One Dimensional Man by Herbert Marcuse, or maybe something by
habermas...

...there is a reason why Wilber refers to habermas so much. If "Mystical
Marxism" sounds absurd to you well, science is an empirical practice which
was accepted to help overcome suffering. now technology has alleviated most
of the suffering it can (biological suffering only) and is beggining to
become a slight drag if nothing steps up to supplement it. The MoQ and
mysticism are also empirical practices which aim at alleviating
(transcending) suffering. Any society based solely on techological
imparitives which deny Quality will promote unfreedom and suffering, the
next stage requires something else. Im sorry if it sounds silly to you, but
ceasing evolution for technological progress sounds silly to me, especially
if people still think killing, manipulation, stealing and all the rest are
all right (as they technically are under science but not under mysticism).

Thanks for reading all this,
elliot

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