>> George, it might b e more useful if you addressed the gist of my
>> comments. including the larger portion which you ignore here. I do not
>> consider myself a Darwinist, so you arrow misses any mark relevant to
>> me. It is true that people dislike in others that which they dislike
>> in themselves - and why not, we know it best <smile> -- but I think
>> you are using this as a red herring: the issue was your prophet's
>> prophecies, was it not?
>>
>> It is of no matter to me whether you hold to your beliefs or not,
>> frankly. But if we are to discuss them and how they have formed -
>> which is what we have been talking about for these last several emails
>> - then let us do so without rancor or defensiveness. Otherwise it is
>> simply not worth it.
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Lawry
To upbraid me for taking umbrage at your inconsiderate (to put it mildly)
remarks seems to me to be outright disingenuous.
>> So, I think what we have here is a group of believers who search the
>> 'prophetic' writings of the founder of their church to show themselves
>> and others how amazing and 'true' their prophet is. It may be a bit of
>> stretch, but any connection between the prophecy and a current event
>> will do, as long as its premises and claims aren't examined too
>> closely, to comfort and reassure the believers in their faith.
>> Best regards,
>> Lawry
>
> I would suggest that you dislike traits in others that you are
> particularly guilty of -- I know I do, it's human nature. In light of
> that suggestion, I would further suggest that the above is just as
> applicable to the Church of Darwin as any other.
> George
To use your condescending phrase, "I think what we have here", is somebody
who seems so dissociated from the unconscious realm that they think
conscious criteria should be applied to dream/visions. I prefer to cast
my lot with Jung on this matter, who, by the way, enumerates many a case
of his own that indicate that he believes dreams/visions can be
legitimately precognitive.
My wife needed only about 5 seconds to concoct her own vision in response
to your unprovoked polemic, upon which I will elaborate slightly:
The year is 1814. One has a vision of a military square forming, and
hears the French words for "the guard is retreating", though the visionary
knows no French -- they learn the meaning in being assisted in preserving
the details of the vision in writing. Additionally, the visionary
recounts a hook-nosed man on horseback motioning forward thrice, and
finally, bloody corpses and spent cannonballs strewn across a
battle-charred field.
Fast forward to 1816. Many read of the vision. Many have no doubt that
it prophesied the Battle of Waterloo.
Sister White's vision may not be so complete, but it contains enough so
that reasonable inferences common to the interpretation of unconscious
symbols can be made. For instance, fire engines cannot operate when
either the firemen and/or the engines themselves have been buried under
the rubble of two of the largest building on earth.
Let me elucidate my own dream from last night. I was at a sporting event
at night, when the entire mezzanine section of the stadium across the
playing field became intensely illuminated. I thought how the light must
hurt the spectators, and just then many originally brightened by the light
were cast back into darkness, leaving only a sliver of the mezzanine still
shining.
Alas I am compelled to return to the light: the Lord Jesus Christ. And
so, I, who fancied myself a sort of well-integrated Phaedrus, bid the MOQ
adieu. The journey of heavenly enlightenment may have its travails, but
its reward is everlasting quality, and so I go.
George M Jempty
(individual email encouraged)
ORIGINAL POST/REPLY:
This is not 'prophecy, it is observation and then extrapolation. That is,
she lived at a time when buildings were indeed growing taller, and when,
indeed building fires were not uncommon, and firemen sometimes found
themselves hopeless. To say that there will be more of the same, but only
bigger, is insignificant and obvious.
Here is MY 'prophecy' for the day:
"I see a great storm hitting a people in Florida who thought they could bask
idle in the sun, forgetting the suffering of their fellow human beings, and
creating much havoc and panic amongst them. I see their bodies swirling in
the cruel waters, the hands of their fellows reaching for them, as they are
ripped away never again to be seen."
Yawn.
BTW, I can make up LOTS of these, and they would be even better with a bit
of time to draft them. Hmmmm..... I wonder if the world needs a new
prophet!
Now, if she had said something about airplanes flown by an angry people who
wanted to hit back at us for our support for Israel...well, then I would be
impressed. And this is not asking too much, for if she had a vision of
Sept. 11, surely the vision would have included airplanes hitting the
buildings, no? It is a pretty sorry vision that omits the single most
distinctive visual aspect of the event that the vision purports to describe.
Other aspects of the 'prophecy' are intriguing...is she (and you) saying
that the people who attacked the WTC were the instrument of 'the turning
and overturning of God's power'? And is she saying that the firemen were
unable to operate their equipment? This is the first time I've heard it
suggested that the fire equipment didn't operate.....
So, I think what we have here is a group of believers who search the
'prophetic' writings of the founder of their church to show themselves and
others how amazing and 'true' their prophet is. It may be a bit of stretch,
but any connection between the prophecy and a current event will do, as long
as its premises and claims aren't examined too closely, to comfort and
reassure the believers in their faith.
Best regards,
Lawry
GEORGE:
Here are, in my opinion, a couple of her most remarkable quotes:
"In regard as to what is coming on New York ... I know that one day the
great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning
of God's power."
Much more specifically, from a vision:
"On one occasion in New York City ... I was called upon to behold
buildings rising story after story toward heaven .... The scene that next
passed before me was an alarm of fire .... these buildings were consumed
as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the
destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines."
Has anybody on this group heard or read anything more specific than this
that seems to have pointed to Sept 11th?
George
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