Re: MD Is Morality Relative?

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Mon Dec 06 2004 - 15:50:09 GMT

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "Re: MD Is Morality Relative?"

    > On 5 Dec 2004 at 8:11, Platt Holden wrote:
    > Of course, asserting that it's good to view theories as provisional
    > is itself an absolute, unless that assertion too is provisional, ad
    > infinitum.
    > msh says:
    > A classic example of discussion termination via The Holden
    > Circularity.

    Huh? Doesn't look like I stopped you from continuing the discussion.

    > platt to steve:
    > You asked:
    > > I brought up this issue, because it concerns the issue of
    > > homosexuality. People opposed to gay rights often claim to hate
    > the
    > > sin and not the sinner. In other words, they consider the
    > > homosexual act itself to be simply wrong. Is this your view?
    > platt:
    > No. But, some of the behaviors leading to the act I consider wrong
    > such as soliciting innocents to participate in the act.
    > msh says:
    > The solicitation of innocents is not limited to homosexual behavior. This
    > is an example of Platteral Shift.
    "But" is not a shift. It's a qualification and/or additional comment.
    > platt:
    > Well, the scale of Quality from low to high is an absolute although
    > where to place a particular idea or behavior on that scale is a
    > matter of personal preference guided by Pirsig's hierarchy.
    > msh asks:
    > Where does Pirsig describe absolute Quality?

    An example of the MSH twist. I didn't say absolute Quality. I said the
    scale of Quality is absolute.

    msh continues:
    > I see no way in which
    > Pirsig's moral hierarchy can be construed as absolute.

    Well then I guess you never read the following:

    "In this plain of understanding static patterns of value are divided into
    four systems: inorganic patterns, biological patterns, social patterns and
    intellectual patterns. They are exhaustive. That's all there are. If you
    construct an encyclopedia of four topics—Inorganic, Biological, Social and
    Intellectual—-nothing is left out. No "thing," that is. Only Dynamic
    Quality, which cannot be described in any encyclopedia, is absent. (Lila,


    > platt to steve:
    > What I find interesting is your implication that belief in God can
    > support an intellectual pattern just as belief in Quality supports
    > the pattern of the MOQ.
    > msh asks steve:
    > Is this what you are implying?
    > Thanks,
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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