Re: MD Is Morality Relative?

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 13:59:56 GMT

  • Next message: Ian Glendinning: "Re: MD Is Morality Relative?"

    Hi MSH, All:

    > >arlo said:
    > All this talk of absolutes also reminds me of the "law of gravity"
    > part of the chatauqua. "So there was this 'absolute', sitting there,
    > having no mass of its own, no energy of its own, not in anyone's mind
    > because there wasn't anyone, not in space because there was no space
    > either, no anywhere - this 'absolute' still existed?"
    > Pirsig continues:
    > "Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
    > mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed thing
    > is a human invention, including the idea that it 'isn't' a human invention.
    > The world has no existence whatsoever outside the human imagination."
    > msh asks:
    > Yes, this comment has always troubled me. "The world has no
    > existence whatsoever outside the human imagination." Is Pirsig an
    > Idealist or an Empiricist or what?

    The comment troubles me, too. As said, it's pure Idealism.

    > I can see how the laws of nature
    > and logic might be said to exist in our imaginations, but everything? Is
    > this just some poetic enthusiasm from way back, near the beginning of ZMM,
    > to support the ol' ghosts around the campfire setting?
    > What do y'all think he means? Is there something OUT THERE, or not?
    Good question. I doubt if Pirsig would step in front of a truck claiming
    it had no existence other than in his imagination.


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