MD Is Morality Relative?

From: Mark Steven Heyman (
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 03:21:53 GMT

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    Hi Arlo, Chin, all..

    >arlo said:

    All this talk of absolutes also reminds me of the "law of gravity"
    part of the chatauqua. "So there was this 'absolute', sitting there,
    having no mass of its own, no energy of its own, not in anyone's mind
    because there wasn't anyone, not in space because there was no space
    either, no anywhere - this 'absolute' still existed?"

    Pirsig continues:
    "Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
    mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed
    thing is a human invention, including the idea that it 'isn't' a
    human invention. The world has no existence whatsoever outside the
    human imagination."

    msh asks:
    Yes, this comment has always troubled me. "The world has no
    existence whatsoever outside the human imagination." Is Pirsig an
    Idealist or an Empiricist or what? I can see how the laws of nature
    and logic might be said to exist in our imaginations, but everything?
    Is this just some poetic enthusiasm from way back, near the beginning
    of ZMM, to support the ol' ghosts around the campfire setting?

    What do y'all think he means? Is there something OUT THERE, or not?

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    Web Site:

    "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
            We come from nowhere and to nothing go."

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