Re: MD Making sense of it (levels)

From: johnny moral (
Date: Fri Feb 28 2003 - 18:23:39 GMT

  • Next message: Joao: "Re: MD more than one intellectual level"

    >Here's where Pirsig contradicts your "idea" about ideas:
    >"A human being is a collection of ideas, and these ideas take moral
    >precedence over a society. Ideas are patterns of value. They are at a
    >higher level of evolution than social patterns of value. Just as it is
    >more moral for a doctor to kill a germ than a patient, so it is more moral
    >for an idea to kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea."
    >Perhaps you can find a quote or two from Pirsig that supports your

    You got to help here Platt. Is he saying that bad ideas don't exist?
    Wasn't it an idea to celebrate the criminal element at those cocktail
    parties he wrote about, and doesn't he suggest that society needs to kill
    that idea? Wouldn't the doctor have to have an idea to kill the patient in
    order to kill the patient? Without an idea, it would be accidental, and
    that isn't considered immoral, unless the doctor was negligent, which
    probably means he'd been preoccupied with the idea to play golf when he
    should have been operating. In that case, the idea killed the patient.

    >When you say "technology" what are you referring to? Computers?

    Computers evolved from transistors which evolved from tubes which evolved
    from wires, etc. I guess it goes all the way back to the 'artifacts' you
    were talking about, by which I inferred you meant 'stone tools, and their
    descendents' Computers will evolve into something else. That course of
    evolution is what I call technology. Also medical technology and
    automobiles, are technology too.

    > > Pirsig would say it is absolutely moral for Technology to wipe
    > > out humanity, and absolutely immoral for humans to arrest > Technology,
    >but I vehemently disagree.
    >Pirsig would say what? I'm baffled by what you mean by "technology."

    It is a prevailing idea to turn over more and more of our life to
    technology, like cloning and reproduction and our bodies and health, and
    even things like love and caring, it sounds like Pirsig would say it would
    be immoral for anyone to suggest we don't.

    Question: Where does Pirsig say ideas come from? I ask because I think the
    idea that we ought to let technology evolve and improve our lives comes from
    technology itself. If it didn't exist, no one would think of it.

    >Pirsig had something to say about computer awareness in his notes to
    >"Lila"s Child," but I'll await your answer to what you mean by
    >"technology" before looking up Pirsig's remarks.

    I haven't looked at that yet. I can download it from the moq site?

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