Re: MD Lila's Child

Date: Fri Aug 08 2003 - 16:24:24 BST

  • Next message: Joe: "Re: MD Intellectually Nowhere"

    Hi Platt and Squonk

    This is a good thread! If I may throw in some supporting Pirsig quotes?

    We agree on a lot, Squonk. But here I must question your "artistic
    creations of intellect"

    So, artistic creation doesn't come from intellect but from that sense
    within each of us that responds to the creative force of DQ. It's known
    to the us as a sudden flash of insight, the light bulb going off, the
    surprising connection we make between two or three heretofore unrelated

    To add weight to Squonk's aesthetic interpretation of intellect, but to
    clarify the DQ-SQ relationship at work that Platt alludes to, check out
    this passage from ZMM:

    "Poincaré then hypothesized that this selection is made by what he
    called the "subliminal self," an entity that corresponds exactly with
    what Phĉdrus called preintellectual awareness. The subliminal self,
    Poincaré said, looks at a large number of solutions to a problem, but
    only the interesting ones break into the domain of consciousness.
    Mathematical solutions are selected by the subliminal self on the basis
    of "mathematical beauty," of the harmony of numbers and forms, of
    geometric elegance. "This is a true esthetic feeling which all
    mathematicians know," Poincaré said, "but of which the profane are so
    ignorant as often to be tempted to smile." But it is this harmony, this
    beauty, that is at the center of it all.

    Poincaré made it clear that he was not speaking of romantic beauty, the
    beauty of appearances which strikes the senses. He meant classic beauty,
    which comes from the harmonious order of the parts, and which a pure
    intelligence can grasp, which gives structure to romantic beauty and
    without which life would be only vague and fleeting, a dream from which
    one could not distinguish one's dreams because there would be no basis
    for making the distinction. It is the quest of this special classic
    beauty, the sense of harmony of the cosmos, which makes us choose the
    facts most fitting to contribute to this harmony. It is not the facts but
    the relation of things that results in the universal harmony that is the
    sole objective reality.

    What guarantees the objectivity of the world in which we live is that
    this world is common to us with other thinking beings. Through the
    communications that we have with other men we receive from them
    ready-made harmonious reasonings. We know that these reasonings do not
    come from us and at the same time we recognize in them, because of their
    harmony, the work of reasonable beings like ourselves. And as these
    reasonings appear to fit the world of our sensations, we think we may
    infer that these reasonable beings have seen the same thing as we; thus
    it is that we know we haven't been dreaming. It is this harmony, this
    quality if you will, that is the sole basis for the only reality we can
    ever know"

    Seems to me we're able to draw upon a lot more than a limited
    repertoire of patterns to express ourselves, especially if you think of
    individual words as individual patterns.

    I think "repertoire" is closely linked with the "analogues" described in
    the following passage; therefore we seem to have a cultural and
    individual repertoire with which to respond to Quality. Is this how you
    see it Squonk?

    squonk: Very much so. I like the term repertoire for its artistic flavour.
    All patterns, inorganic, organic, social and intellectual share a living
    relationship with DQ - and the best coherent relationships have high aesthetic

    "Men invent responses to Quality, and among these responses is an
    understanding of what they themselves are. You know something and then
    the Quality stimulus hits and then you try to define the Quality
    stimulus, but to define it all you've got to work with is what you know.
    So your definition is made up of what you know. It's an analogue to what
    you already know. It has to be. It can't be anything else. And the
    mythos grows this way. By analogies to what is known before. The mythos
    is a building of analogues upon analogues upon analogues." ZMM Ch28



    Hello Paul and Platt,
    This hits the nail on the head in all respects in my view. It is the
    aesthetic that drives our intellectual patterns - the Quality of their harmony.

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