RE: MD Defining the mythos

From: David Buchanan (
Date: Sat Aug 16 2003 - 04:44:09 BST

  • Next message: "RE: MD myths and symbols"

    Paul said:
     "the best description of the mythos is a collection of intellectual
    patterns" This obviously needs further expansion, so here is a start.

    In ZMM Pirsig describes the mythos

    "The mythos-over-logos argument points to the fact that each child is born
    as ignorant as any caveman. What keeps the world from reverting to the
    Neanderthal with each generation is the continuing, ongoing mythos,
    transformed into logos but still mythos, the huge body of common knowledge
    that unites our minds as cells are united in the body of man. To feel that
    one is not so united, that one can accept or discard this mythos as one
    pleases, is not to understand what the mythos is."

    Paul also said:

    So to expand my definition slightly- the mythos is the collection of
    socially learned or approved intellectual patterns of value. As a
    consequence, I think that associating the mythos solely with social patterns
    seems to miss some of the key points made by the MOQ.

    dmb says:

    I think on of the operative phrases here is, "transformed into logos, but
    still mythos" . I think what he's saying is that today's mythos is made up
    of both social and intellectual patterns. Once upon a time the mythos was
    almost entirely made of social patterns, but now includes both. He's not
    saying that myth and logic are the same thing. He's not saying that social
    and intellectual patterns are anything less than seperate and discrete. And
    of course Pirsig insists that all of our intellectual descriptions are
    culturally derived and that the logos emerged from the old mythos. The
    difference between the levels remains even if the culture contains both. So,
    I appreciate your clarification on this because I'm quite sure that "a
    collection of intellectual patterns" is NOT THE BEST description of the
    mythos. Our Western mythos includes intellectual patterns, but that wasn't
    always true and it might not be true even now in some cultures. I mean, it
    seems to me that the mythos MUST include social level patterns, but can and
    has existed without intellectual patterns. See what I mean?




    MOQ.ORG -
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    Nov '02 Onward -
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Aug 16 2003 - 04:46:44 BST