Re: MD Beyond

From: Wim Nusselder (
Date: Tue Mar 09 2004 - 07:30:23 GMT

  • Next message: "Re: MD Quality takes a hit...."quality"?!?!"

    Dear Matthew P.,

    You propose 9 Mar 2004 00:59:35 -0500 to discuss 'all aspects of moving
    beyond what we are and what we have now'.
    In MoQish that reads for me as: 'How do we and how can we move beyond static
    patterns of value' or 'how do and can we experience Dynamic Quality'.

    For you reading 'Islandia' (written by whom and when?) changed your mindset.
    The quotes you provided didn't change my mindset. It is very difficult for
    me even to understand how and why that book made you 'move beyond' what you
    were. That may have been because they were just a few quotes. More probably
    it was because I started out from another mindset than you when you first
    read it.
    Maybe you should decribe your mindset before and after and what were the
    essential changes for you, to make me understand.
    The main lesson is, I think, that 'how to move beyond' depends on
    where/how/what you are at present. Dynamic Quality depends on pre-existing
    static patterns of value.

    I have written before on this list, that I recognize three different types
    of human activity that are meant to reach beyond the highest available level
    of static quality: religion, art and science. For me (Quaker) religion is
    most important.
    I don't think it is wise to state that one of these activities as a whole is
    not a valid way of 'reaching beyond'. It would be better to recognize
    that -if you experience it that way- you probably have in mind subsets of
    that activity (e.g. dogmatic religion, art-pour-l'art, SOM-based science)
    that may have that role for others who are elsewhere on a path to DQ even if
    it doesn't have that role for you.

    I've changed your metaphor of 'moving beyond' into 'reaching beyond'. We
    need a foothold in static patterns of value to be able to experience Dynamic
    Quality. It is only when Dynamic Quality has left new static patterns of
    value in its wake that we can let go of that foothold, that we can move on.
    Discussing 'how to move beyond' requires at least a description of
    where/how/what we are at present.

    It is our ability to phantasize, to create utopia's in our mind (and for
    others: on paper, e.g. for you 'Islandia') that enables us to see the lack
    of Quality in where/how/what we are at present and to realize the need and
    possibility to move beyond.
    Discussing 'how to move beyond' not only requires sharing where you move
    from, but also where you want to move to.

    The only thing we can neither describe nor discuss is ... the 'moving
    beyond' itself. The experience of Dynamic Quality stays undefined.

    With friendly greetings,


    MOQ.ORG -
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    Nov '02 Onward -
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Mar 09 2004 - 07:30:31 GMT