From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Mar 09 2004 - 18:38:56 GMT
Hi Poot
It seems to me that modern life is full of anxiety.
This keeps us all in a certain state. We have mortgages
to pay to be able to continue living in our houses/flats,
we have pensions to save for, life insurance and health
insurance to pay. No time to do things for ourselves,
our cleaning, our cooking, etc. Our lives are complicated,
we travel too far to work, our children's schools are too big
and too far away. We seem to be on a constant drive to
consume and produce more. But can this be sustained
and are we really chosing this or in fact given no real options?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Poot" <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: MD Beyond
> Hello all, READ THIS POST!
>
> In light of many of the recent posts I have decided to start a thread, in
> which we can discuss all aspects of moving beyond what we are, and what we
> have now, both intelluctually, individually, scientifically, and socially.
> I think it is important not only to discuss this, but to reach consensus
on
> some issues (I don't have any specific ideas as of yet).
>
> There has been talk of dropping the religious talk, and talking on common
> grounds. I know that our common grounds, between all of us writing is the
> MoQ. That is the beauty of it.....its so free......you can be religious,
or
> not, and still understand every bit as much, just interpreting it slightly
> differently. We all can use the MoQ as a grounds to discuss openly and
> freely, without any social or political inhibitions.
>
> DM(> Yes, more time to think, to train and study,
> > to get off of our addictions, to spend time
> > bringing up our children better, etc.
> > I am sure most people would agree.
> > So why can't we have what we want?
>
> Yes. I don't know why this has arisen, but it seems that mankind has
built
> an impregnable prison for itself. This prison is known commonly as
"work".
> I will now use some quotes from Islandia, which I have posted(some
unposted)
> before without much/any response. Islandia is a very important book, even
> though some denote the serious application / consideration of fiction..
> Some consider it to be utopian fiction........for those who chose to
dwell
> in the book as a sort of getaway fantasy, this may be so. However, this
is
> not how I understand it. It literally changed my mindset when/ after I
read
> it. PLEASE READ THESE:
>
> " ".....over the horizon, men and women sprinted and fell exhausted, rose
> and
> sprinted again. An even pace was impossible."
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> "I don't think we work too hard. Did it ever occur to you that the trouble
> is not the long hours, but the nature of the work, because of the
complexity
> of the life we are confronted with all day long, suggesting continually a
> feeling of chaos?"
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Philip said previously: ....you are a pragmatic individualist......
>
> "Lang- "As I see it, men are born with an impulse to be active and to do
> various specific things. In Islandia, that impulse or vitality has outlets
> which are natural to man, taking into account the fact that he is a
> muscular, two-legged animal, as well as a creature with a highly developed
> brain. The life here **now*poot* makes such demands that men to exist, are
> compelled to expend their vitality in unnatural ways. As a result in
> Islandia, men are more even, all-round beings who feel and enjoy things
with
> a greater keenness-"
>
>
> Philip "Hedonist!"
>
>
> "All right , Phillip, I will accept your term of abuse and confut you with
> it. Pleasure is the greatest good! But pleasure means one thing to an
> Islandian and another to you. Pleasure means to you, pleasure of the
senses
> either directly or vicariously through emotions in the mind. And here
> everyione has such a devil of a time surviving, and so many unpleasant
> things to do in order to live and survive, that they exalt the unpleasant
> things and decry the pleasant ones. Pleasure means to you something
> sinful, wrong, self-indulgent. If so, of coursepleasure isn't the greatest
> good.
>
>
> But Islandia isn't for everyone. There are some who have so perverted
> themselves that the unpleasant things are pleasure to them- the reformers,
> those who wish to organize others' lives. But the perfectly normal man
with
> normal desires, a MIND, and muscular strength, is not so perverted. All I
> say is that the Islandian way gives him a better chance to have what he
> wants than this country."
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ON EDUCATION: This is where the solution lies, in my opinion. How do we
> solve crime? Its not by putting more police on the streets....no....that
> doesn't work at all. Not a bit. If you think about it, education is the
> only way. If you look at the majority of murders being committed, they
are
> not being commited by well educated persons, but the ignorant. If you
are
> ignorant, then all that matters are the surroundings directly around you,
or
> those which directly influence you. How could someone conciously commit
> murder if they were well educated?? I can't really fully explain it on
> paper, but if you think about it..... They'll realise a LOT more.
>
> Violence is often at the hands of the ignorant, whether they be petty
> criminals, or the president of the USA, or Nazi Germany (NOT making a
> comparison), or any other violent "regime". IF you look back upon the
> annals of history, then you can easily see that the brightest people are
not
> warmongers, but artists, writers, philosophers like confucious, (i suppose
> that would exclude machiavelli), mystics, religious persons (Jesus,
> Muhammed, St. Francis of Assisi, the list goes on)
>
> well.....I just looked at the clock, and I have to be up soon. Goodnight.
>
> PLEASE reply.
>
>
> Matthew Poot
>
>
>
>
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