Re: MD secular humanism and dynamic quality

From: David MOREY (
Date: Sat Mar 27 2004 - 20:09:16 GMT

  • Next message: "Re: MD quality religion"

    Hi Matt

    I definitely fall into the "spectatorial cynicism" -no actually 'spectorial
    relecting but not doing much' category.
    Your danger I suggest is to fall into the 'let's hang on to liberalism as
    hard as we can as it is crushed' category,
    you are more optimistic that your strategy is not doomed, I am more
    optimistic that a better strategy
    can be found. Perhaps you should take my wager that we better try and come
    up with something better than
    liberalism in case liberalism is not going to hack it. Try starting with Roy

    I hope your right. It's been fun as usual. Funny how the public world seems
    awful but
    privately I just had a lovely day in the old city of York, saw some ruins, a
    nice meal with my wife, bought a few books
    and a nice second-hand Mozart CD featuring the lovely German bass Kurt Moll,
    enjoying it now.

    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: <>
    Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:24 PM
    Subject: Re: MD secular humanism and dynamic quality

    > David,
    > David said:
    > OK you've given me enough flexibility to accept your temporary right to
    talk secular if you want to, problem is, as Rorty accepts, things are not
    looking very good for liberalism. ... Can something good be achieved? I
    think we may be in more trouble than hanging or to liberalism can handle,
    because we are probably are going to be able to hang on to it. Your
    > Matt:
    > And you're the one that calls _me_ pessimistic.
    > The deal with me and Rorty is that, yeah, things aren't looking so good
    for liberalism, but we don't think it has anything to do with liberalism or
    democracy, more to do with good, old-fashioned greed, sadism, etc. But
    that's the case with every gov't set-up, isn't it? Well, we haven't heard a
    _damn_ thing as to what other options we are supposed to use.
    > Everything on your little list of things that you said isn't on the agenda
    (or, as I would say, isn't getting enough attention) is perfectly within the
    grasp of liberal democracies to do something about. And I can imagine us
    doing something about all of them within our liberal parameters, using a
    secular language. As far as I can tell, liberal democracy is still the way
    to go.
    > So, despite the world looking more and more like 1984, we haven't lost
    hope, because hope is the only way to really enact change. Once you've lost
    hope, you're one step closer to spectatorial cynicism, and that's just
    > Here's to hope,
    > Matt
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