RE: MD Religion of the future.

From: storeyd (
Date: Thu Apr 29 2004 - 03:41:40 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD Religion of the future."

    Happy Wednesday evrbuddy,

    dmb wrote:
    >. And if Wilber asserts a
    >metaphysical starting point in the same way Pirsig does, I'm not aware of

    In the Preface to his "bible" (sex, ecology, spirituality), Wilber addresses
    the issue of this label, "metaphysics", and interestingly, he says almost
    exactly the same thing as pirsig, but in different words. he says that he
    assumes it will be charged that what he is trying to do is "metaphysics", and
    that critics will debunk his whole system based on the unstability of
    metaphysical foundations in general. Yet Wilber asserts quite boldly that if
    what he is doing is not based on direct, empircal experience, there is not a
    metaphysical sentence in the book. in short, both he and pirsig are
    resurrecting metaphysics on the basis of science (understood as an
    epistemological pluralism, where the bounds of the laboratory extend beyond
    the chemistry lab.

    Joe wrote:

    >joe: IMO Heart, Soul, Essence, Direct Mystical Experience, Transcendental
    >Consciousness, eye of flesh, eye of Mind, eye of Contemplation, Sprirtual
    >Domain are the old words.
    >IMO MOQ is a new word.

    MOQ is a new phrase. metaphysics, of, and quality are very old words. it is
    not even their sequential combination that is the real novely; that is, the
    point is what the words intend, what hides behind the words, the ideas, if you
    want, the values, the quality, the force, elan vital, God, etc. My point is
    that the words tend to get in the way, and both Wilber and Pirsig would assert
    this. All i'm saying is that, it seems as though many people dismiss Wilber
    from the outset because he sounds too soft, souly, transcendental, New Age,
    etc.(even though he strongly criticizes the New Age), and consequently, they
    unfortunately miss his real novelty. Anyhow, just trying to spur you on to
    explore Wilber with the same spirit with which you embrace Pirsig; honestly
    i'd be interested to hear about any differences or inconsistencies you
    unearth. Best,

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